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MINI E Talk (2010) Discussion of the electric, zero-emissions field trial MINI. Only 500 to be leased by MINIUSA!

MINI E - anyone notified yet?

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  #51  
Old 02-17-2009, 09:33 AM
lunchbox lunchbox is offline
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Got this in an email from my MA today:

well, cut and paste was a mess. It was from the MINIE Eastern Sales Specialist stating that he doesn't know when the electrical inspection / charging station installations will begin, but they will start on the West Coast. This is the info he is getting from national HQ.

Good luck to all...
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  #52  
Old 02-17-2009, 10:44 AM
soareyes soareyes is offline
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Thanks for the update Lunchbox. I haven't heard anything yet on scheduling inspections here on the west coast.

Have you decided to contine with the Mini E lease with the uncertainty of the tax credit?
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  #53  
Old 02-18-2009, 05:44 AM
lunchbox lunchbox is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soareyes View Post
Thanks for the update Lunchbox. I haven't heard anything yet on scheduling inspections here on the west coast.

Have you decided to continue with the Mini E lease with the uncertainty of the tax credit?
I'm 90% certain that I won't take the lease if accepted, but I'm going to continue with the process in case the 10% wins out. After the credit that I would most likely qualify for, the car would cost me roughly $10k out of pocket with all things considered. As my wife pointed out, that could more than pay for the '65 Mustang project I have going on or cover 40% of the cost of the Cooper S I really want (and could keep after 12 months are up). She's in for it if I decide to do it, but I don't think the MINI E will end up in my garage.
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  #54  
Old 02-19-2009, 07:22 AM
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07YellowMCS 07YellowMCS is offline
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Good luck to all. I couldnt spend that amount so I didt apply :(
I am on Long Island so if anyone needs an electric upgrade let me know. I should be able to get you a good price.
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  #55  
Old 02-20-2009, 08:20 AM
soareyes soareyes is offline
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There was a major update to the tax credit for plug-in cars included in the stimulus bill passed last week. The maximum credit of $7500 stays the same, but now each manufacturer can sell 200,000 cars before the credit phases out (was 250,000 total for all manufacturers before), and the credit can be applied against the AMT if you fall into that category. Here is a summary taken from calcars.org:

Plug-in Electric Drive Vehicle Credit. The bill modifies and increases a tax credit passed into law at the end of last Congress for each qualified plug-in electric drive vehicle placed in service during the taxable year. The base amount of the credit is $2,500. If the qualified vehicle draws propulsion from a battery with at least 5 kilowatt hours of capacity, the credit is increased by $417, plus another $417 for each kilowatt hour of battery capacity in excess of 5 kilowatt hours up to 16 kilowatt hours. Taxpayers may claim the full amount of the allowable credit up to the end of the first calendar quarter in which the manufacturer records its 200,000th sale of a plug-in electric drive vehicle. The credit is reduced in following calendar quarters. The credit is allowed against the alternative minimum tax (AMT). The bill also restores and updates the electric vehicle credit for plug-in electric vehicles that would not otherwise qualify for the larger plug-in electric drive vehicle credit and provides a tax credit for plug-in electric drive conversion kits. This proposal is estimated to cost $2.002 billion over 10 years.

The full bill can be seen at:

http://thomas.loc.gov/home/h1/Recovery_Bill_Div_B.pdf

Pages 50 to 68 concern the electric car credit.
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  #56  
Old 02-25-2009, 06:20 AM
soareyes soareyes is offline
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I received a reply from the IRS to my question about whether leasing a Mini E would qualify me for the $7500 tax credit. Got the response today:

Thank you for your inquiry. We apologize for the delay in our reply. If your only question is whether the New Qualified Plug-In Electric Drive Motor Vehicles may apply to leased vehicles, the answer would be as follows. If you have additional questions, please respond back.

This is very recent tax law came into law effective January 1, 2009. There may be a new form or may use existing Form 8910, Alternative Motor Vehicle Credit. The 2009 federal tax forms may not be available until late in the fourth quarter of 2009. If all other requirements are met for claiming the credit, this new law does allow the credit for leased vehicles.

IN GENERAL- The term `new qualified plug-in electric drive motor vehicle'
means a motor vehicle

`(A) the original use of which commences with the taxpayer,

`(B) which is acquired for use or lease by the taxpayer and not for resale,

`(C) which is made by a manufacturer,

`(D) which is treated as a motor vehicle for purposes of title II of the Clean
Air Act,

`(E) which has a gross vehicle weight rating of less than 14,000 pounds, and

`(F) which is propelled to a significant extent by an electric motor which draws
electricity from a battery which

`(i) has a capacity of not less than 4 kilowatt hours, and

`(ii) is capable of being recharged from an external source of electricity.



Sounds good so far!
Stan
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  #57  
Old 02-25-2009, 09:55 AM
soareyes soareyes is offline
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I know I'm probably boring everyone to tears with this, but I came across another web site today which talks about the plug-in tax credit, and again verifies that leases will be eligible. Look about 1/3 of the way down the page:

http://www.calcars.org/calcars-news/1048.html

Stan
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  #58  
Old 03-05-2009, 07:01 PM
Tim07040 Tim07040 is offline
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Thanks, Lunchbox and Soareyes, for your many helpful posts in this thread about the possible tax credit, from the 2009 stimulus bill, for participants in the Mini E field trial—you are not boring me! (I am new to this site, however…). I have now read all the posts in this thread, and the relevant parts of all your links to other sites and to the relevant PDF files of the bill itself. Though I remain somewhat confused, it does seem that the gist of your postings at this point is that you firmly believe that field trial participants can benefit from the tax credit for $7500, and it appears you have responded to all other posters’ concerns. But you think it might depend on how the form instructions are written…

For me, this possible credit makes the decision on whether to sign the lease much easier. On top of the very expensive lease, I have to upgrade my garage to 240v, with my latest estimate being $2200 (even with the line drop to my detached garage from the utility being free). I cannot really justify these expenses, but have some funds that I allocated years ago to “a fun new car years in the future”—and that is now—and so I have been inclined to sign up for my MINI E lease, as I need something fun in my life right now. If I know I can get the credit, the decision will be nearly trivial.

But I do have a few more questions. I realize that you “cannot give tax advice” and all that, and a lot depends on how the IRS form and regulations are done to implement the provisions of the bill, but what’s your point of view on these questions?
  1. The credit of $7500 applies because of the kWh capacity of the MINI E battery. So if I get my MINI E on April 1 and pay 9 months of the lease ($7650), and get $7500 of it back in a credit in my 2009 tax return, I’m paying just $150 for the use of the car this year? Or is there something I am not getting?
  2. Lunchbox, your test run of your taxes reduced the credit because of the AMT? Or was there some other reason? Do you more and more of the credit (in the current form) as your AMT goes up? I don’t think the AMT will hit us this year, though I am not sure…
  3. I was going to have the lease in the name of my sole-proprietorship LLC (consulting), in case I could find a way to deduct the expense (I just file a 1040 with a Schedule C). Does the wording of the stimulus bill suggest that leasing under the LLC would prevent me from getting the credit (I know I can’t get both a deduction and a credit). If so, and I were sure of the credit, I would lease it in my own name.
I have no experience with any kind of tax credit, but this $7500 possibility seems too good to be true: basically, the government would almost be paying me to have a MINI E for a year? There’s no pro-rata amount per year or anything like that (unless the AMT affects it)? Not a bad deal if you can get it.

Again, thanks for your helpful posts.

Tim

Last edited by Tim07040; 03-06-2009 at 08:20 PM.
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  #59  
Old 03-06-2009, 07:28 AM
soareyes soareyes is offline
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Welcome Tim!
I'll make some comments, but it sounds like you now know as much about all this as I do. Maybe lunchbox has learned more these last few weeks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim07040 View Post
The credit of $7500 applies because of the kWh capacity of the MINI E battery. So if I get my MINI E on April 1 and pay 9 months of the lease ($7650), and get $7500 of it back in a credit in my 2009 tax return, I’m paying just $150 for the use of the car this year? Or is there something I am not getting?
Thats the way I understand it! Of course there are taxes to be included, the cost to upgrade your electricals, liability insurance, etc. I figured that if I can use the full tax credit, the Mini E should cost me about $300/month.
Quote:
  1. Lunchbox, your test run of your taxes reduced the credit because of the AMT? Or was there some other reason? Do you more and more of the credit (in the current form) as your AMT goes up? I don’t think the AMT will hit us this year, though I am not sure…
  2. I was going to have the lease in the name of my sole-proprietorship LLC (consulting), in case I could find a way to deduct the expense (I just file a 1040 with a Schedule C). Does the wording of the stimulus bill suggest that leasing under the LLC would prevent me from getting the credit (I know I can’t get both a deduction and a credit). If so, and I were sure of the credit, I would lease it in my own name.
I can't help you on either of those two questions. I doubt even tax specialists will know for sure until the tax guidelines are written.

Quote:
I have no experience with any kind of tax credit, but this $7500 possibility seems too good to be true: basically, the government would almost be paying me to have a MINI E for a year? There’s no pro-rata amount per year or anything like that (unless the AMT affects it)? Not a bad deal if you can get it.

Tim
The old saying "if it seems too good to be true....." keeps me wary of expecting all this to work out to my benefit. As I mentioned before, I plan to go through with the lease with the expectation of not getting any credit (and not relying on it to make my decision). If the credit works out, then it will be a very nice bonus. I probably won't even know until my taxes are done in April 2010, which will be about the time the car has to be turned in at the end of the lease.

Tim, have you found any other blogs or forums about the Mini E? These are the only two I have come across:

http://mini-e.blogspot.com/

http://eliasheldon.com/?p=63

Stan
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  #60  
Old 03-06-2009, 01:35 PM
BGBG BGBG is offline
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I hate to be so skeptical about the tax credit, but the "sounds too good to be true" feeling is probably the right feeling to have.

Even though someone from the IRS e-mailed with a response that "yes" leased vehicles are o.k., I wouldn't put too much stock in it. (I called the IRS the other day about a tax issue and the IRS rep. put me on hold to "research" the issue. After about a 10-minute wait, she told me she couldn't find anything on Wikipedia about my tax question. I kid you not. This actually happened.)

I could totally see a scenario at the end of the year where the IRS guidelines come out and they say to use Form 8910, which allows only an owner of the alternative motor vehicle to take the credit. It precludes a lessee from taking it.

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f8910.pdf

A bummer, but I think this is a distinct possibility....
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  #61  
Old 03-07-2009, 08:57 PM
Tim07040 Tim07040 is offline
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Stan (Soareyes): Thanks for the comments... I guess we'll see. I will ask a new accountant I am meeting with this week, though I agree with you, he may not know about this. For me, I was only about 80% decided for sure to go through with the lease (I am still trying to get a handle on the real cost to upgrade my garage power to 240A), so I need to figure out what I would do assuming there is no tax credit... but it would sure save me effort and mental strain to learn this sooner. But I doubt the IRS will be issuing the regulations very soon, since people don't need them until they file 2009 taxes [unless of course you count people like us!].

BGBG: I can imagine the IRS doing what you say as well, though the language in the bill, on page 191 — (5) which is acquired for use or lease by the taxpayer and not for resale... — does seem pretty clear to me.

Tim
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  #62  
Old 03-08-2009, 12:30 PM
lunchbox lunchbox is offline
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Tim07040,

When I finished my 2008 return, I ran a hypothetical return as if I had a $7,500 credit under the Alternative Fuel car credit and hit the AMT ceiling after realizing less than $1,000 of the credit. I'm assuming that the IRS will not change the wording regarding the credit for 2009 and, additionally, make the electric car credit parallel the AF one in all respects. Since my returns are consistant year to year, I could reasonably expect the same result for 2009.

I hate the AMT. If not for that, the lease would be a no-brainer for me.
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  #63  
Old 03-10-2009, 07:57 AM
soareyes soareyes is offline
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Jay Leno drives the Mini E

Finally, Mini E news that doesn't involve tax law!

Jay Leno drives a Mini E and talks to the project engineers:

http://www.jaylenosgarage.com/video/...ml?vid=1052621

Stan
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  #64  
Old 03-10-2009, 10:48 AM
ChasSidwa ChasSidwa is offline
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Back to Taxes, In the stimulus bill there is a blurb about Recapture. Treasury is instructed to write regulations on this law. Don't bank on the full $7,500.00 on a 1 year lease. I think it will be way less if anything at all. I do agree that this new law does include leased vehicles.
I make my living doing taxes for the last 30 years so I'm not a casual observer.
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  #65  
Old 03-10-2009, 12:09 PM
soareyes soareyes is offline
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Yes, I saw 'recapture' discussed a little bit over on greenhybrid.com. Again, I wouldn't recommend that anyone base their leasing decision on the hope of getting the tax credit.

And welcome ChasSidwa! I recognize your name from greenhybrid.com.

Stan


Quote:
Originally Posted by ChasSidwa View Post
Back to Taxes, In the stimulus bill there is a blurb about Recapture. Treasury is instructed to write regulations on this law. Don't bank on the full $7,500.00 on a 1 year lease. I think it will be way less if anything at all. I do agree that this new law does include leased vehicles.
I make my living doing taxes for the last 30 years so I'm not a casual observer.
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  #66  
Old 03-11-2009, 07:12 AM
rphooper rphooper is offline
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Just joined NAM, this has been a very interesting thread to read. I'm also signed up to get a MINI E and while some tax break would be nice Im not banking on it. An extra benefit here in NJ is no sales tax on Zero Emission vehicles.
I know in CA there are much more benefits to driving electric vehicles, will the charging stations they setup there work with the MINI E, can anyone comment on CA's incentives for electric car drivers?


Please visit my blog http://mini-e.blogspot.com
Robert
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  #67  
Old 03-11-2009, 09:26 AM
soareyes soareyes is offline
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All the charging stations I've come across in California seem to be the inductive type chargers, most using paddles. Of course these won't work with the Mini E.

Here is the most comprehensive web site I could find listing public charger locations:

http://www.evchargernews.com/

I'm not sure of any California specific incentives (car pool lane?) for electric cars, maybe someone else can comment.

And welcome Robert!

Stan
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  #68  
Old 03-13-2009, 07:28 AM
soareyes soareyes is offline
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Looks like the home electrical inspections have begun, at least here on the west coast:

http://revengeoftheelectriccar.com/m...te-inspection/


Stan
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  #69  
Old 03-13-2009, 07:44 AM
ChasSidwa ChasSidwa is offline
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This is the last I heard from dealer,
[FONT='MINITypeRegular','serif']We are getting closer to home site inspections! A visit to your Dealership will be scheduled soon to meet with some team members from Utility Coordination, Flying Doctors and myself to give you insight into the next portion of the MINI E process. We had hoped to start next week, but R57 training may delay our schedule.[/FONT]
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  #70  
Old 03-13-2009, 10:15 AM
machugh machugh is offline
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Hi, I am new here, I have been selected to participate in the Field Trial, but I don't think I am going to be able to swallow that lease payment. I contacted the dealer who I am working with regarding this $7500 credit, and this was his reply:

Message 1:
I'm out of the office today but have information on this. I'm pretty sure it does not apply in this case since it is a short term lease but will let you know.

Message 2:
I sent your concern to our coordinator. Pretty sure the answer is no re the $7500 tax credit but you might want to discuss with your accountant if the tax portion can be written off under the new stimulus bill.

Regards.... Steve

So I doubt that this credit will be available to Mini E lease holders. Sorry.

Rob
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  #71  
Old 03-13-2009, 12:00 PM
brent snavely brent snavely is offline
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Hi,
I am a reporter with the Detroit Free Press and I am working on a story about electric vehicles and the electric grid. I'd like to talk to anyone who is participating in the MINI E test program about your expereinces with the home inspection and the installation of the Wall Box and hear about learn about that process. I can be contacted at: 313 222-6512 or [email protected]
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  #72  
Old 03-15-2009, 08:05 PM
Tim07040 Tim07040 is offline
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For those of you interested in the possible tax credit in the stimulus bill, I found that by using a special syntax for a link to a PDF file, you can get the PDF file of the bill to open at a certain page or with a search on terms already executed (I have seen this work with Acrobat Reader back to version 6 at least):
  • This link opens the bill to the section we care about, which begins on p. 212.
  • This link opens the stimulus bill and searches for the word plug-in; it finds 27 instances.
  • This link opens the stimulus bill and searches for the word amended; it finds 412 instances. (And if you look at the text of some of these, you start to get the feeling that any reading of the strangely worded bill by laymen is going to be prone to mis-interpretation. Makes me really feel we have to wait till the IRS issues the form and instructions, and wish Congress could write this stuff more clearly!)
Thought this might be helpful to some of you.
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  #73  
Old 03-15-2009, 08:16 PM
Waterway4 Waterway4 is offline
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Just approved

My credit application was approved. Site visit next. This is going to be fun!
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  #74  
Old 03-15-2009, 08:59 PM
soareyes soareyes is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waterway4 View Post
My credit application was approved. Site visit next. This is going to be fun!
Congratulations! Let us know how the site visit goes. The only visit I've heard about so far is in the link I posted above a few days ago.

Stan
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  #75  
Old 03-16-2009, 07:23 AM
rphooper rphooper is offline
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My credit application was approved. Site visit next. This is going to be fun!
Congrates and good luck on the site visit
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