In about two weeks I will be geting my car back with new JE pistions, ARP bolts, clutch and everything else I have all ready done like FB head and cam. I now want to go twincharged and then turbo only in about a year. My main concern is not to blow up another motor. How do I prevent "boost creep, or any other problem that will make my motor run too lean and blow? I was hoping you guys could give me some pointers are running this system in the safest way possible. I want about 270whp with this system, so I guess I would run about 20psi.
Thanks
Mario

 

From the nature of your question, I'm going to guess that you know as little as I do about tuning. You mention twincharging and turbo-only and need pointers on running "this system". Why not just go turbo-only from the get-go and skip the expense and pain of tuning a twinchared system?

Bottom line, find a shop that's done it successfully more than once. Good luck.

 

Don't do it Mario! Just wait it out and go turbo only. It's a MUCH more reliable system. With the new head and all the goodies you have you should be up in the 225-230 whp range. That should more than hold ya off till you gather the funds for a turbo-only .

 

if you must spend the money on the twin just send it to me !!! this will save you time . really just wait for the turbo only .

 

Cut up your credit card Good luck with the new setup
On a serious note. Why not go with a proven combo instead of the scattergun approach. I'm pretty new to this MINI stuff. Got some nice OKOLE seatcovers for the wife But the small amount of time I've spent reading:
http://www.michiganmini.org/forum/index.php?topic=805.0
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...ad.php?t=95473

If you're not using these guys. Why not? For what you've spent on blown engines you could probably be running a proven combination. I'm not sure from what I've read, that JE pistons are anything to brag about. I'm also not sure about the head and cam? I am sure who I would go to in order to find the answers.

If you are using any of the above mentioned builders. Please let us know
Again, best of luck.
Regards

 

I know I change my mind every few hours. I would love to do a turbo only kit but I'm not sure of what all extra parts are needed to make the conversion. I figured I would do a mild twincharge and then later add the parts I will need for the turbo only set up. I'm looking at getting an E Boost 2 kit, seems to be one of the better electronic wastegate controlers.

 

Hi, Mario!! I love your enthusiasm, patience, and willingness to "break barriers" -- and hardware.

That said, here are the "top four", in my opinion, not in any order:
> great lubrication, meaning plenty of CLEAN oil in a free flowing system, SO, changed regularly, and filtered well, and kept at right temp (additional cooler(s) if needed) and maybe increased system volume capacity? the experts need to calculate this one.
> avoiding detonation, meaning keeping the system cool and the AFR in tolerable range with whatever means is best suited to your custom system (which it almost certainly is or will be by the time you are done.) again - call in the experts Maybe requires a new ECU (and other stuff?) to replace the OEM??
> capable valve train that can keep up with the revs, meaning special (e.g., dual?) springs and all other parts that allow the valve train and cam to not completely get messed up at higher engine speeds (>7500rpm?)
> bottom end that can stand the extremes (meaning the stuff you are already looking at, maybe plus other special parts such as high strength rods, etc.

You might enjoy looking at some of the books produced by the "Sport Compact Car" magazine editors. I found them interesting. Even though they focus on ricers, the principles they address in many of their articles and books (about turbocharging and otherwise "hot-rodding" our small but sturdy engines) are really full of gems they've found through costly experiences and acquiring advanced engineering skills and knowledge ("on the shoulders of giants").

Also, I strongly agree with VENI VIDI VICI as far as finding a good shop (within reasonable distance from you for support) and really working closely with them.

And lastly --- I hope you take this in the spirit in which it is meant --- This might be heresy, but I am starting to wonder whether another thing might be to really consider with your power desires, is whether a MINI is the right car for you? You do not seem to have severe limits to your pocketbook, and you seem to want to go REALLY fast and REALLY burn rubber, so I think this is just a natural question. It just seems to me that you could be barking up the wrong tree? I guess that it can be sort of fun to "test the envelope" of this little car to see how much can be squeezed out of it, but Tuls, ElD, and several others seem to be already on those fringes. You know what they say about pioneers: you can generally recognize them because they are the ones with the arrows sticking out of their shirts!! If you want to go there, that's great. But if you are just looking for speed at any price, then I think a different route might be an idea (like an EVO, or a Vette, or ...??). Just my 2 bits. for pure power, 1.6 liters eventually limits what you can do, and the frontal area of the car limits the top speed capability.

That said, I hope you satay with the Mini, and I look forward to your return to the streets with ANY set up because I know you will then again be posting with greater regularity, and that is always entertaining, given your enthusiasm and clear love of (speedy) motoring.

 

Is it entirely out-of-line to say that the transition from twin-charge to turbo-only will require a different turbo? and different ECU maps? My line of thinking is that you have different components for the central features of each system, so you end up buying two separate systems?

You will learn a lot along the way though, and, no doubt, have lotsa' fun.

dan

 

absolute number one way to not blow it up..... park it!

 

and know what pond you're swimming in. If you beat a stock car, it can blow. As you stress the motor more and more with more stuff, you can blow it more easily.

But to really answer you , pu the credit card away for a bit. Go get a few books on turbos, engines, and tuning, and learn from the experts. You will understand where things like boost creep come from, and how others have dealt with it. Why re-invent the wheel?

No, this won't make you an expert tuner, but it will allow you to better understand the sharks in your water, so to speak. You'll understand the product offerings more, and be able to talk with your builders more constructively.

If reliability is your goal, turn down the power goals. If power is your goal, prepare to buy spare parts. No matter what your goal, if you beat the machine, it won't last.

Matt

 

Knowing Mario personally,

Mario does "get it" alot more than alot of you all might think...

Mario is a car guy through and through. I know that Mario is not just looking for a machine "to burn rubber". I think he is more obsessed with the pure joy of motoring a MINI, and seeing how hard he can motor this car.

Mario has owned and "built" many other cars with far more horsepower and rubber burning potential than a MINI. He now owns a MBZ E55 that he himself installed and tuned an after market supercharger for, complete with aftermarket intercoolers, meth injection systems, full gauges and data collection equipment. He has also owned highly modded M3's and other UBER FUN stuff.
In Marios own words "the 524 whp of the E55 is fun... but its no MINI".

Mario loves to go on canyon runs with his buddies in the Malibu hills and lead the pack of Hennesy supercharged Vipers, supercharged C6 Vettes, fully modded Porsches, Ferrraris, M-powered Bimmers, and many other super cars.

I think there is just an M-80 that goes off inside Marios dome when he is leading this pack in a MINI!!! and everybody behind him is sweating thier driver seats and steering wheels trying to keep up with him in 400-750 hp cars. I can just magine the boots full of diapers these guys are going to show up to the runs with now; with Marios future creation.

I'm all for it!!!! Go fot it Mario! I cant wait to see what you come up with... I know that when you do decide exactly which route you going to take it will be completely dwelled upon day and night, talked about on NAM for advice, and figured out down to the last dollar, labor hour, whp and tqft lbs...

Just dont go blow anything up real quick this time, it sucked not being able to motor with you for a while there. Also, invite me over for the garage mod nights. It's going to be a blast!

I cant wait to go for a ride, I got my pampers!!!!

 

I can understand the joy of bringing a little tiny can of whup-*** to a canyon twisty. And it's gotta be a blast to see a guy in a Vette, or a Viper fuming 'cause he's just been blown off by a Mini!Whatever floats yer boat, Mario!! I'll root for you, even though I want to state categorically that I would never encourage street racing. But I'm sure you would never do anything dangerous or illegal!!

But Doctor O is still right. The harder you beat the horse, the more often and the worse it's going to break. No matter what, there is always a weakest link that defines the limit of endurance. If you press the machine hard enough long enough, you WILL find that limit.

Maybe you should buy a second Mini as a spare? Build one as a twin-charge and the other as a turbo-only? That way at least you'll have less down time.

Why not?

 

I don't care how methodical and careful you are in modding this car, you have decided to enter the extreme mod category and part of the entrance fee to this elite club is the increased risk that something could break resulting in expensive repairs. Consider this the membership fee to being a member of this elite club.

Whats the old saying? you gotta pay if you want to play. I can appreiate you paid before you got to really play but if this was too painful - reaccess your hp quest.

On another note - if you know you want turbo only then take the direct path to get there.

Whatever you do, keep posting about your journey.

 

From what i've read, most of the full turbo conversion parts are simply upgrades to the engine to allow it to deal with the extra HP. As you've already done most of that (New high flow head, new pistons, etc) you're not far from being able to just throw a turbo in there and call it a day (Bit more complicated than that but you get my drift). You've dealt a lot with fireballed in the past, and they're in the process of marketing a "Bolt on" turbo only setup. I'd talk to them about your HP aspirations. Brian was fairly adament when I spoke to him about twin-charge kits being unreliable because of the higher boost and engine drag.

For the added expense of conversion, you'll save money in the long run by not having to double up on parts. Keep in mind you'll need an entirely new turbo, and a lot of the parts you buy for the twin charge kit to retrofit the turbo will need to be replaced or modified.

One of the most important parts of any high horsepower setup is a proper tune. Lots of guys are running huge numbers on stock internals without any issues, but they keep the AF in check, and make sure the car is tuned for all scenerios.

Whatever you decide to do, enjoy your car, and happy motoring .

 

Thank you guys for the good advice and for keeping it real. It is true I want big horsepower from my Mini but nothing like what Brian or Tuls have (400whp +++). I'm looking at 270whp which I think is very possible for the parts I already added. The turbo only is my first choice and this may be the way I might go and just take my time doing it. The turbo only system does make more sense because there is less drag, lower boost, cooler temps and more power. I'm working with Hubie right now on getting prices on the parts I will need to go turbo only.
When I bought the Mini it was for work only because I drive so much visiting customers, but after being on the boards I couldn't help myself from modding. I love the way it drives, handles and looks. The thought of having a Mini that keeps up with some of my friends cars puts a huge smile on me. I have never loved a car this much and for others it is strange becauase I'm 6'3" 230lbs. The question I hear everyday since I bought the Mini is, "how do you fit in that thing?" I spend more time defending my Mini as I do driving it. I guess it is something you have to own to love.
I have invested a ton of cash in to this little beast and in no way want to blow it up again. I feel working with Hubie and Brian will help me have the car I will be happy with power and safety.
BTW I have cut the credit cards up back in Decemember and everything is paid in cash.

Thank you again
M

 

Good luck however you decide to go . Hubie and Brian know their stuff, your car's in good hands

 

Mario, you crack me up 270 hp (yes it is doable) is 61% increase over stock . Just because there are greater fanatics than you does not make your objective "conservative". You've gotten the MOD bug bad and thats okay because you are here at NAM with the other addicts . At least your not driving around late at night pully up to guys on street corners going "psssttt got an MODS for sale"

Looking forward to you getting your car back and future posts of your journey.

 

Mario-
PM me if you want. I am installing my Fireballed turbo kit over the next week to 10 days and can talk over the choices I made and why I made them. I enjoy NAM, but don't really want to make a public opinion forum of why I chose to do what I did. Brian and Hubie have taken care of me and have vowed to continue to do so. Even to the point of flying to AZ to help me if there are serious problems that arise down the road with the car. Can't say much more than that I think!
Anyway, PM me and we can talk over the turbo only stuff if you would like. BTW, I am aiming towards the same goal as you have for daily driving whp.

 

smart move... i think that's prob the first step to not blowing a motor... everything should be slow (relative) and methodical.

 

Dang Mario,
You don't need more HP. You need:
http://www.slim-fast.com/index.asp

6"3" 180lbs should be good for at least 20hp?
Just jerkin' yer chain. I've got a kid 6'2" and 230lbs in pilot training. So far he's ripped out the stitching on 5 G-suits. Former football player at the AFA. He's really ripped.

Looking forward to meeting you. If you look anything like my kid-----I'll be the guy running in the opposite direction.
Regards

 

LOL, I'm not ripped any more but I try and still work out. About 8 months ago I bought the business I had been working at for 9 years. Now being an owner I have very little time to work out, but I did go it twice this week and I was still able to rep out 300lbs on bench 8 times. I'm going to make it a point to hit the gym 6 days a week and drop down to 215lb.
Hope to meet you and your boy some day
M

 

here ya go - HOOK-UP and tag along in his cars development.

 

He won't be the first

 

Not sure where everyone is getting the idea that you need another turbo than what comes with the twin charge kits. Even the smallest turbo that is offered by the vendors (gt28rs) has enough head room for 270whp.

The only things you need to convert from twincharge are an adapter plate for the intake manifold. An intercooler (preferably FMIC or water to air) and charge piping. An idler pulley and electric water pump (or convert to a non s cooper altenator, water pump, and belt tensioner). And of course a new tune. A return fuel system will help in the tunning department.

 

I think the kit I'm going to get is a 28rs, which I like you said can easily get me to 300whp. The kit I want to build at first would use my M7 DFIC top mount aftercooler, but later on I would love to up the boost a pound or two and install a FMIC. Also I'm guessing I should sell my 380 and 600 injectors and get 440rc injectors for my 270whp quest.
I'm sure I will do this slowly because, one money, two I'm too busy right now and three my E55 needs some love right now.
M