I see that these are now available in pairs ($300) or fours ($595)to add to the rear suspension so that one can easily adjust camber and toe in for the rear.

Is this something that is just useful for racing and the track or can it also be used for street driving to tune a suspension or to help with a particular wheel setup?

If I don't race is this sort of upgrade a waste of time energy and money compared to getting lighter wheels and maybe the H-sport springs/ madness rear sway bar? (If I want to go more than what a stock MCS offers).

Any comments from RandyBMC? Thanks in advance. :smile:
To tell you the truth- I kinda just like how they might look compared to the boring and a bit ugly stock control arms

 

the adjustable arms are more for camber adjustment than toe, although you can do both. If you have lowered your car in the rear, the camber will have gone too far negative and require the adjusables to get back. the excess negative is fine for the track or ax, but will give you early tire wear for highway use

 

You can also avoid the abnormal tire wear by rotating the wheels every 2k miles.

Gary

 

I tend to agree with grose on this one. As long as you are diligent with tire rotation, and you haven't done front camber plates, your tire wear can be kept under control.

That said, these are the trickest out there I've seen. They are very easy to use, and the blue anodized look is great! You can adjust both toe and camber, and with the decreasded negative camber, you will see longer tire life - and you don't have to worry quite as much about the rotations.

I would suggest doing the springs and swaybar first. This will give you a dramatic change in handling characteristics (and you wouldn't need the control arms on a non-lowered car anyway). Then I'd do the wheels and tires, and finally the camber links (control arms).

Let me know if you have any other questions!

Randy

 

I'm not sure how big an issue it is, but rotating the tires doesn't really eliminate abnormal tire wear, it just averages it out, and then only if you have a compensating positive camber (which you wouldn't have.) My tires, for example, are directional, so the only practical rotation is front/rear same side which will end up wearing the inside of the treads more than the outside on both tires per side. However, if you re-mount the tires on the rims so you can swap sides, you can get the inside wear to take place on the other side ot the treads, sort of distributing the wear.

In the front, camber plates not only allow the setting of negative camber for the track, but they allow you to easily set it back to stock for the highway. this was the same intention for the rear adjustable arms, they are just more inaccessible.

 

John,

I'm trying to save some money for folks by letting them know what they really need and don't need.

You are correct that on highway only driving, you wouldn't have the correct wear on the fronts, but with the camber on the front in lowered form, as long as you are flogging the car in turns every once in a while, the outside on the fronts wear much quicker than the inside. Thus, if you rotate front to rear consistently, you will have an even wear (albeit a little quicker than normal).

If you have the cash, the arms will work for saving the tires in the rear, but you will still end up wearing the outsides of the fronts on the track or at an auto-x or even during spirited street driving. These arms don't really address that - so if you want to get crazy, you would need front camber plates for more negative camber, and rear control arms for more less negative camber - an expensive proposition.

For example: I've had the Falken Azenis tires on the car for over 2000 miles, with 4 autocrosses and two track days included in that, and still have no visible additional inside wear on the rears. They have a very soft tread wear of 200 as well.

I hope that clears up my point some. I don't mean to say that the control arms are useless, but when asking if you should spend your money elsewhere first - absolutely.

Randy

 

What do the Front Camber plates do exactly?
In effect, what is the difference between camber plates and rear camber-links?
Are they practical for aggressive street driving applications or just for racing?

thanks to anyone that can clarify this for me :smile:

 

The front uses a Macpherson strut, so camber plates are the easiest way to get camber and caster out of the front. The back uses a multi link set-up, so the best way to get camber/toe adjustment is through the links.

As far as the benefit, unless you are doing some really hard driving or some track/autocrossing, the camber plates and links aren't really necessary. They do give you much more choice in suspension alignment and set-up, and they can reduce tire wear and improve handling, but the springs and swaybar alone will do that for you wihtout breaking the bank, and as I explained above, not totally kill your tire wear if you remain on top of rotations.

If you have an unlimited budget, or have already done the other suspension mods, I recommend the camber adjustments. Just be aware that while the adjustments can be made to make a marked improvement in handling, if done wrong, they can also send your car way out of whack.

Let me know if you have any othr questions.

Randy

 

Thanks Randy!
Which would you reccomend that I do first?

 

The first suspension mod I would do is the rear swaybar. After that the H-Sport springs. After that the rear camber links, then finally the front camber plates.

Let me know if you have any other questions.

Randy

 

Randy,
Do you reccomend the madness rear sway bar over the H-Sport?
why, what's the difference?

p.s. Do you think you'll have time for this install when you come to SoCal?

 

The madness is cheaper and you only have to modify the rear.
The h-sports require you to do the front too.

I'm very happy with the madness bar and a lot of other people are as well.

 

I did the H sport springs and Madness bar mainly because the install of the front bar is supposed to be a *****. The tests done on the H sport bars weren't as good as I had expected so I went the cheaper and better route. It's not very often that you get those two things together. I'm going to add the H sport lower camber links to the rear for more adjustments. So far so good.