Drivetrain Endyn stuff: First impressions.
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 10,340
Likes: 5
From: Woodside, CA
Endyn stuff: First impressions.
Hi all, I just put on an Endyn head with intake and ported IC horns. While I haven't quantified it yet, I've driven on it for a couple of days and these are my first impressions:
1) Low RPM and midrange is much improved. Today I found myself using 3rd gear at 1700 RPM and there was enough pull to get going! It feels like there is more torque pretty much everywhere, but a lot more down low.
2) My OBX/Stock Cat/One-Ball exhaust system note is a bit deeper, and a bit louder. Interestingly, none of the sound is coming from the header/exhaust pipe, but I hear it from the back by the muffler. The difference was just on the threshold of my official change detector: my wife! I didn't tell here what I'd done, and when we went driving today I asked her if she noticed anything. She wasn't sure, but thought the sound was different. (She didn't notice the Hotchkis Competition Camber Plates!)
My car is a 2002, with pulley, JCW injectors, M7 SC and DFIC and HAI. I talked to Larry at Endyn, and wanted more midrange, and that I would be going to 7500 RPMs every now and then. So this is a street head plus.... I didn't do the cam yet, as I'm still choosing what to use. Eventually, I'll quant the changes, but the weather is very different than any other tests I've run... Got to wait for a nicer day.
I paid just over $1800, got port and polish, +0.5 High Si content SS intake valves, +1.0 exhaust, new springs and lightweight retainers (For a futer more aggessive cam and the higher red-line. The springs and retainers are a bad idea if you're sticking with a stock cam and red-line, as the stiffer spring will rob a bit of power.) I also got the porting of all the intake componenets (intake and two SC horns) in the same price.
Larry wasn't fast (4 months) but he was good to his word. We talked about what I wanted out of the head (several times) and that's how we distilled the parts that would go onto it. At least the head showed up the week I overheated and blew my head gasket! I'd also like to thank Kieth (k-huevo) for some conversations about his Endyn head and the options he went for.
Matt
1) Low RPM and midrange is much improved. Today I found myself using 3rd gear at 1700 RPM and there was enough pull to get going! It feels like there is more torque pretty much everywhere, but a lot more down low.
2) My OBX/Stock Cat/One-Ball exhaust system note is a bit deeper, and a bit louder. Interestingly, none of the sound is coming from the header/exhaust pipe, but I hear it from the back by the muffler. The difference was just on the threshold of my official change detector: my wife! I didn't tell here what I'd done, and when we went driving today I asked her if she noticed anything. She wasn't sure, but thought the sound was different. (She didn't notice the Hotchkis Competition Camber Plates!)
My car is a 2002, with pulley, JCW injectors, M7 SC and DFIC and HAI. I talked to Larry at Endyn, and wanted more midrange, and that I would be going to 7500 RPMs every now and then. So this is a street head plus.... I didn't do the cam yet, as I'm still choosing what to use. Eventually, I'll quant the changes, but the weather is very different than any other tests I've run... Got to wait for a nicer day.
I paid just over $1800, got port and polish, +0.5 High Si content SS intake valves, +1.0 exhaust, new springs and lightweight retainers (For a futer more aggessive cam and the higher red-line. The springs and retainers are a bad idea if you're sticking with a stock cam and red-line, as the stiffer spring will rob a bit of power.) I also got the porting of all the intake componenets (intake and two SC horns) in the same price.
Larry wasn't fast (4 months) but he was good to his word. We talked about what I wanted out of the head (several times) and that's how we distilled the parts that would go onto it. At least the head showed up the week I overheated and blew my head gasket! I'd also like to thank Kieth (k-huevo) for some conversations about his Endyn head and the options he went for.
Matt
6th Gear
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,731
Likes: 0
From: Anaheim, CA
Matt,
It sounds like you didn't get the supercharger reworked. Is that true?
And were the rollerwave pistons out of scope?
Thanks for the review, the pricing info, and Larry's tips on springs and retainers.
It sounds like you didn't get the supercharger reworked. Is that true?
And were the rollerwave pistons out of scope?
Thanks for the review, the pricing info, and Larry's tips on springs and retainers.
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 10,340
Likes: 5
From: Woodside, CA
I've got an M7 SC on the car...
and it was a later model that has coated rotors. The biggest difference between the M7 and the Endyn is Larry fills in the sound supression ports. I honestly don't know what effect that has on anything......
As far as not going deeper into the motor, I bought the head core a long, long time a go, and send it off over the summer. I had no plans to do the bottom end until I had to, and even though the car overheated and blew a gasket, the deck was flat enough and the rings tight enough to keep it going. Who know, if it blows up someday, I'll do the bottom end too. But there are a lot more options out there for pistons now... And some other things that would go on in the bottom. he he he!
But the bottom end has to let go to justify that expenditure. And while there's more blow by than I'd like, it's still going.....
Matt
As far as not going deeper into the motor, I bought the head core a long, long time a go, and send it off over the summer. I had no plans to do the bottom end until I had to, and even though the car overheated and blew a gasket, the deck was flat enough and the rings tight enough to keep it going. Who know, if it blows up someday, I'll do the bottom end too. But there are a lot more options out there for pistons now... And some other things that would go on in the bottom. he he he!
But the bottom end has to let go to justify that expenditure. And while there's more blow by than I'd like, it's still going.....
Matt
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 10,340
Likes: 5
From: Woodside, CA
16%
But I honestly don't know if the P/P on the SC does much and I didn't test it in detail. It seems that it should help temps a bit as the smoothing of the passages should reduce turbulence. I don't know what effect closing the sound ports has on efficiency either. I think endyn will do teflon coatings for the SC. M7 uses Steigemeier (I think that's how it's spelled). They have an excellent rep in the modification of Eatons for lots of stuff (mostly american muscle...).
Matt
Matt
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4th Gear
Joined: Mar 2005
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I too am eager to hear how it works for you. I have a head at Endyn being done now to very similar specs, and my current mods are similar to yours. I'm planning on putting an OBX header as well. I'm up in the air regarding putting in a performance cam with the head or not.
Larry was kind enough to give me a tour of his facility when I took the head over to him. I have never seen a shop as well organized, clean and well equipped as his. That guy is one serious and dedicated craftsman.
Larry was kind enough to give me a tour of his facility when I took the head over to him. I have never seen a shop as well organized, clean and well equipped as his. That guy is one serious and dedicated craftsman.
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 10,340
Likes: 5
From: Woodside, CA
There are others running it...
but not everyone posts their experiences...
Actually, if I were to do it over again, the research would be very different, don't know if the decision would have been. There are a lot of other offerings out there now.
Matt
Actually, if I were to do it over again, the research would be very different, don't know if the decision would have been. There are a lot of other offerings out there now.
Matt
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 10,340
Likes: 5
From: Woodside, CA
There are several vendors...
M7 has a bigger valve head now. DMH has heads at lots of price and performance levels. I think FBT is doing one, and he who should not be named has one in the works.
And that's on top of all the other offerings that are out there. But really, no matter who you go with, the key to getting what you want out of head work is a lot of time discussing how you're going to use the car. With head work, like pretty much everything else, there is no "one size fits all".
Matt
And that's on top of all the other offerings that are out there. But really, no matter who you go with, the key to getting what you want out of head work is a lot of time discussing how you're going to use the car. With head work, like pretty much everything else, there is no "one size fits all".
Matt
5th Gear
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 696
Likes: 0
From: Ohio
Oops!
You're only making it worse for yourself!
Making it worse?! How can it be worse? Jehova! Jehova! Jehova!
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 10,340
Likes: 5
From: Woodside, CA
Car is a blast...
but life hasn't been kind. We had a tree come down on our property, so we have no power (took out power lines). I've also been doing some A/V stuff inside the car (to get the video iPod to play on the Nav system), the seats are out and parts are all over the inside, so I haven't been driving that much......
Matt
Matt
6th Gear
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,629
Likes: 7
From: Pipe Creek, Texas
I’ll share my unsolicited long term impressions. ENDYN big valve head optimized for mid-range rpm performance, stock camshaft & springs, ENDYN ported & port matched intake and exhaust manifolds, ENDYN ported SC with case & lobe coating, 19% reduction pulley, 380cc injectors, GIAC/Helix flash, hand ported, port matched & short side radius polished supercharger and intercooler output ducts, with stock intake.
At the dyno (Mustang, 101F day) with Milltek catback, 41.50 lb-ft torque and 58.81 hp over stock base line, that’s a 37% increase in torque and 48% increase in hp. I exceeded the former peak torque way before measuring started and later torque peak only dropped by10 lb-ft at redline. A/F ranged from 11.2 to 10.4, avg. 10.8. On a Dynojet the torque curve was flat from 3200 to 5400 rpm with very little deviation before (8.4% @2,400rpm) and after (9% @6,400rpm).
On the street with Borla standard catback, power and torque are supplied where I use them the most; roll-on passing performance and drives out of curves. I don’t need an aftermarket intake and I don’t need a turbo; there’s little I’m in want of under the hood.
At the dyno (Mustang, 101F day) with Milltek catback, 41.50 lb-ft torque and 58.81 hp over stock base line, that’s a 37% increase in torque and 48% increase in hp. I exceeded the former peak torque way before measuring started and later torque peak only dropped by10 lb-ft at redline. A/F ranged from 11.2 to 10.4, avg. 10.8. On a Dynojet the torque curve was flat from 3200 to 5400 rpm with very little deviation before (8.4% @2,400rpm) and after (9% @6,400rpm).
On the street with Borla standard catback, power and torque are supplied where I use them the most; roll-on passing performance and drives out of curves. I don’t need an aftermarket intake and I don’t need a turbo; there’s little I’m in want of under the hood.
6th Gear
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,710
Likes: 1
From: Northampton MA
I’ll share my unsolicited long term impressions. ENDYN big valve head optimized for mid-range rpm performance, stock camshaft & springs, ENDYN ported & port matched intake and exhaust manifolds, ENDYN ported SC with case & lobe coating, 19% reduction pulley, 380cc injectors, GIAC/Helix flash, hand ported, port matched & short side radius polished supercharger and intercooler output ducts, with stock intake.
At the dyno (Mustang, 101F day) with Milltek catback, 41.50 lb-ft torque and 58.81 hp over stock base line, that’s a 37% increase in torque and 48% increase in hp. I exceeded the former peak torque way before measuring started and later torque peak only dropped by10 lb-ft at redline. A/F ranged from 11.2 to 10.4, avg. 10.8. On a Dynojet the torque curve was flat from 3200 to 5400 rpm with very little deviation before (8.4% @2,400rpm) and after (9% @6,400rpm).
On the street with Borla standard catback, power and torque are supplied where I use them the most; roll-on passing performance and drives out of curves. I don’t need an aftermarket intake and I don’t need a turbo; there’s little I’m in want of under the hood.
At the dyno (Mustang, 101F day) with Milltek catback, 41.50 lb-ft torque and 58.81 hp over stock base line, that’s a 37% increase in torque and 48% increase in hp. I exceeded the former peak torque way before measuring started and later torque peak only dropped by10 lb-ft at redline. A/F ranged from 11.2 to 10.4, avg. 10.8. On a Dynojet the torque curve was flat from 3200 to 5400 rpm with very little deviation before (8.4% @2,400rpm) and after (9% @6,400rpm).
On the street with Borla standard catback, power and torque are supplied where I use them the most; roll-on passing performance and drives out of curves. I don’t need an aftermarket intake and I don’t need a turbo; there’s little I’m in want of under the hood.
The torque curve is wonderful...
6th Gear
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,731
Likes: 0
From: Anaheim, CA
Matt - sorry to hear about the tree issues. I hope your friendly utilities folk help you quickly.
Thanks for the unsolicited info, k-huevo. Your mod list is pretty close to where I think I will eventually be. I'll be more conservative though and go with only a 15% pulley and stock injectors.
Thanks for the unsolicited info, k-huevo. Your mod list is pretty close to where I think I will eventually be. I'll be more conservative though and go with only a 15% pulley and stock injectors.
6th Gear
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,629
Likes: 7
From: Pipe Creek, Texas
newbs49, the header is stock except for the porting and a ceramic coating, dyno time was with the stock intercooler and street time with a thermal dispersant coated stock intercooler; I’m now running the JCW GP intercooler and all is still good.
k-huevo
What did you coat the intercooler with and who did it. Also did you coat the GP intercooler. Did it make a difference? I now have a GP and wonder if the coating would help.
Thanks
What did you coat the intercooler with and who did it. Also did you coat the GP intercooler. Did it make a difference? I now have a GP and wonder if the coating would help.
Thanks
6th Gear
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,731
Likes: 0
From: Anaheim, CA
5th Gear
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,005
Likes: 157
From: Northern Jersey
thats awesome dr.! i had spoken to Larry a few times in regards to what i wanted to do.His work seems to be well respected and he has a loyal fan base. So you ever going to install that header etc...? got any pics of the head?