The 2007 PAX/RTP Index

B Prepared remains if regions want to run it this year

Happy Thanksgiving!!

 

 

The above scale is wrong.

Why in the heck did STX PAX go UP?

Oh, wait, it looks like EVERYTHING went up and STX went up less than anything else.

So, in essence, STX actually went down a few points. :-) Poor GS jumped up 9 points!

Thanks for the post Mark!!

 

I just copied it from the SCCAForums. If it's wrong, don't blame the messenger!

But yeah, all the street tire classes just got easier.

 

lol, your lucky I didn't have a gun, i would have shot the messanger. lol J/K

Actually I like graphs, so, I appreciate the post. :-)

 

Maybe you should stick with STX as STX got easier where as DSP got harder. Plus, the new Fast Track says that the BMW's are going to stay in DSP instead of getting moved to BSP.

STX sounds like the better choice to me!

 

Actually, I guess the only reason PAX really matters is L2 for Prosolo's IF the Prosolo adopts all the changes, the rest is just for bragging rights. :-) I am not sure if I am keeping the car for next season or not. I will probably decide in the next couple weeks.

 

When I run with Northwest Region SCCA, they have a PAX class where all the fast guys (National Champions) run. It's SUPER competitive. So PAX get's real important when I run with them. Best I could do in our Miata last season was 11th out of approx. 35 in the class. But when you take 11th in the PAX class, you're usually 11th overall for the event....so I guess that' s not so bad.

I'm a little bummed that now that we've bought a new 2006 MCS for G-stock, the G-stock PAX index get's one of the larger corrections, but hopefully I'm good enough I can overcome it.

 

I've been wanting an FS Z28 for like that last 7 years - looks like maybe I've got an excuse to buy one now! "But Honey, I want to win the PAX class"

 

SM = ouch

Scott
90SM

 

Hence the reasons I refuse to run SCCA events... So political, so many odd things going on...

 

Wow! That's quite a statement. I'll make note of that for future referance. Thanks for sharing.

BTW, the PAX index isn't administered by the SCCA.

 

While I certainly participate in SCCA events very frequently (couple a month) and will continue to do so, in my own opinion the SCCA is very polical and there are some odd things going on. Of course I'd bet that most organizations the size of the SCCA suffer from the same fundamental problems.

Scott
90SM
SCCA member

 

Ahh, so your from the NWR. I hear you guys have some crazy PAX battles up there. I keep telling the KC guys about you NWR maniacs. :-) Maybe for 07 we can try to copy your regions PAX class, we need the same firey competitive attitude down here. :-)

 

Yeah, it's pretty crazy. I think it's easy to win a National event than it is to win the NWR PAX class. At a National event, you may race against 2-3 top level drivers/cars. But in the PAX class you're racing at least 10 top level drivers.

I like it, because I can can measure my skill level without having to travel to Atwater, Wendover, San Diego, etc... Plus, they're a great group of guys!

 

We ran in SCCA events for quite some time, but don't any longer. Why?

1. Not enough runs = too much standing around and not enough seat time.
2. Politics.
3. PAX.
4. Odd goings on - oh, the stories, some of which are not appropriate to share on a public forum...

The local BMWCCA's autocross events provide more runs, faster courses, and are just plain a lot more fun... Even the SCCA regulars like our BMWCCA's events better - although they also like the "prestige" of running SCCA events and do so regularly. Many are national level competitors, so we have plenty of competition...

At times, depending on the course, ANY car can be capable of putting up FTD, too, which is great... Raw time - no PAX. It's just plain fun when a Miata or MINI on r-comps tromps the big HP guys straight up.

To each their own... I was just making a simple statement as to why I don't run SCCA events...

 

Well since DS only went up a little bit it might be ok if the new R56 goes to DS.

Guess we have to look at the bright side of things.

 

Well, it seems that we've come to the airing of grievances portion of Festivus

I know the SCCA isn't perfect, but I'm glad they're around. No other body has such a consistent set of rules, and such a large group of high-caliber drivers.

I can go to my little local events, and compare my PAX times to national champions and Evo instructors (well, since 1-3 usually show up at our local events), and know about where I really stand.

Small clubs simply lack the statistics and depth of talent* to generate an even approximately fair classing structure. I used to run with a club in MI that had it's own classes, and they were wacked out - like running super-charged Miatas against VW's with sub-street-prepared mods. After enough complaints, they changed the structure to approximately follow SCCA SP classifications (but still allowed aftermarket forced induction, etc), but it still stank.

The fact is, if you want to be able to compete at the highest level, you need something like an SCCA. I'm not in this to beat up at a bunch of guys at a local event, I want to know how I compare to the best drivers. PAX isn't perfect, but it's a lot better than anything else I've seen to normalize the car out of the equation.

*I've seen small clubs with a couple fast guys, but I've never seen a small club with like 100+ fast guys that it would take to really make a nice classing structure

 

I think the point is, there are good clubs and bad clubs. Whether they are SCCA, NASA or what ever. It's the leaders of the club's the define how good/bad they are.

I didn't like our local club much. We had our own rules and poor turnouts. So I volunteered to be president the following season. I copied the successful formula that Northwest Region used, (their classing structure and their "Chief's Program"). Now our entries have tripled in the last three years and we have more volunteers than ever.

If you don't like it, you can always get involved and try to change it. Worked for me!

 

I wasn't implying that the SCCA wasn't wired up well... events are (usually) very well run, etc. The PAX system works for their objectives, as does the classing (usually). I agree that if you want to go against the "best" and it's important to you to compete nationally, the SCCA is the right place to be... I'm glad they're around from the perspective that we don't get 210 people showing up for our "local" autocross events... heh.

But, I have one weekend a month to autocross - and I sure as heck want more than 3 runs. We regularly get 70-80 drivers, many who are nationally competitive (e.g. 2nd place in STU and 1st in STU-L at nats this year among others). There are plenty of very, very fast "local" people around to compare to... I guess I could care less about how fast I am in relation to everyone else, but how well I feel that I nailed the course - since I'm in it for fun competition, the downsides of the SCCA outweigh the good, IMHO. And, I used to like SCCA events...

Our classing system is based around BMW's, obviously. But, it does work well and it's very, very competitive. It's not impossible.

Even with all the data and analysis, PAX is still an apples-to-oranges comparison. Even as good as it is, the only way to truly tell if you're as good as the next guy is to compete in identically prepped cars.

 

Sweet! I agree... the leaders make a huge difference...