I've been more aware of the front heavyness of the MINI recently. wondering if there is anything I can do to make things more neutral without adding weight to the rear. It's not understeer, but I've felt like I'm living on the verge of understeer (do get a little chrip once in a while) going through turns which is unsettling when I'm loosing the sense the car will still turn. I've got grip but I'm well aware of more inertia carrying the car forward.

I put this in MINI talk as it could easily go a variety of directions from driving skill, to weight reduction to suspension to simply having to live witha lack of balance.

 

Do you have A/C in your car?

 

Yes, however I also have intrest in the females and they don't a ppreciate the lack of A/C on ahot Friday night in the summer.

 

Stiffer rear swaybar = better "rotation" in the turns.

Limited Slip helps too...

 

Have the LSD

Still on the stock sway bar

These are 2nd gear 40mph tight radius corners that I'm feeling the "push" is a sway bar going to tighten up the car and leave me feeling front heavy still though?

 

If you get thicker sway bar it should be heavier than stock helping the balance. >grin<

Ok so it won't change the front/back biasing but it'll certainy get rid of the understeer feeling.

 

Even going through all of the major weight loss suggestions it seems like I dump can a ton from the rear and next to nothing in the front half of the MINI:impatient

Anyone do a mid-engine mod

Is there anything I can do with my corner entry to adjust the feel, right now I'm going gor a geometric apex on the 90 dgree corners and a late on the 120 degree corners.

 

IT's a case of I know the car is turning and I'm not getting understeer but it feels like I'm going to end up going straight ahead for the second half of the cruve.


EDIT:And please do undertand I am being EXTREMELY picky here.

 

sounds to me like you need a rear sway...

 

Do you?

My first instinct would be to adjust the suspension with a sway bar rather than rip out the A/C, but that is just me. . .

 

Of course I do. I live in LA. I'm in my car for about 2 hours a day. Withoug A/C, I'd be a very grumpy guy. That being said, it does weigh a lot.

I'd go with the rear sway-bar. Also, what suspension are you using? Stock?

 

Complete stock suspension, which around here is too stiff with all the roads in horrible condition then after they shut 'em down for 18 months and re open them in worse condition I think I've got another 6 months before my towers are completely mushroomed.

Tonight I had the LSD growl at me, and I was planning to stop at the dealer tomorrow for an oil filter; I know there is a TSB for my build date on the fluid, if they can get me some I'll change that when I cange the oil and see if it helps the engagement of the LSD any.

 

Virtually every car you buy today is setup to understeer, at least initially. It's and ealry warning system really - a kind of 'hey Dude, slow it down a little'.

In order to change that, to a truely neutral stance, it is going to take a fair amount of work and $$$'s.

As others have said, an aftermarket sway bar will help, but beyond that only serious suspension work will prevent it give you a neutral handling car.

Weight reduction will not remove the issue either, rear-ballast will alter the weight distribution, but this will not negate the issue - even if you have a pile of gold bullion in the back

 

the only time I've had a truly well-balanced front drive car - one that gives that "rotation" feel in the corners - is with a pretty stiff rear end (OK, OK, yeah, that can be funny, but bear with me).

A stiffer rear bar won't stiffen the suspension *too* much but will give you more rotation. Several on NAM have commented on it, and I've experienced it with previous cars (Mazdaspeed Protege with an unbelievably stiff stock suspension - stiffer than the MCS on 17" runflats - and a SCCA SSB '91 GTI 16V with Konis and a 1mm thicker rear bar than stock). In both cases, getting off the throttle or "trail braking" through the broader corners could induce a 4-wheel drift kind of feeling. On the sharper corners (like most of the corners in Chicagoland - 90 degrees), the only thing that'd bring that back end out was a higher entry speed and some trail braking to the apex. This may not be the fastest way around the corner, but was fun.

A stiffer bar would be step #1, followed by stiffer shocks or springs (I'm assuming you've already checked tire pressure - you can also run 1-2psi higher in rear than front). The more you stiffen the rear relative to the front the more rotation you'll get - but bear in mind that oversteer is harder to correct than understeer, especially in a twitchy, short, sticky car - you can find yourself bassackwards pretty quick, and a panic situation can get dicey (don't ask how I know).

A couple technique modifications may help too - instead of "brake, turn-apex-turn, accelerate" you can brake a little later, trail off the braking while initiating the turn (brings the rear around a little), apex, accelerate.

Also check the video (around here someplace) of the guy with the classic mini going around the cones - priceless oversteer and a nice reverse wheelie at the end. If you over-stiffen the rar you *can* induce oversteer on acceleration, but the rest of the car will be unbalanced (above comment doesn't apply to Quaife-equipped LSD cars with ultra-sticky tires, which can almost oversteer anytime with enough power).

 

A stiffer rear sway bar is what you are looking for. It's been said before in this post...and tons written on the subject elsewhere here on NAM.

Good luck

 

Well seens like I'm going to do some deciding on sways in the semi near future then (already installed a few maybe this time I'll put one on my car!)

Something that was mentioned at a local track-day Iwas observing, was the idea of swaping MCS front suspension bits with those of a stock Cooper, so instead of just stiffening the rear you'd also soften the front (and technically keep a "stock" classed car if that was your goal, not a worry to me though). Has anyone tried this? My budget is extremely limited for the time being (until change jobs and get settled, hopefully really soon) and assuming many of the mounting points are the same, softer springs and anti-swar bars in the front would not only make the ride more bearable but might help that turn in effect. Also I remember hearing the USS made the car tighter, but haven't dug up much onfo on that yet.

Back when I had runflats I used to have the back end come around easily with only a slight mommentary lift (less than 20%) of the throttle 3/4 of the way through a corner then I oculd null it out when the front was pointed where I want it and jump on the gas. My current tires don't allow the rear that much movement anymore, and my technique changed dramatically after doing some racing technique reading then going to the track and getting instruction and following that up with more book education.

Well seems like its getting time I start to throughly educate myself on suspension, thanks for the input folks, I'll be sure to report back.

 

I have been running exact same pressures all around, now that I've lightened the rear perhaps I should up the rear a pund or two and see if that helps, afterall air is free.

 

Motor, you still using the stock rear sway?

That has to go. There are many, many threads on rear sways to read. Just pick a bar, most any will do. Look in the marketplace, ppl sell them all the time.

All MCS inherently understeer. Even adding 25.5 mm H Comp is still understeers on the soft setting.

 

try using the brakes before turning. that's also free.

(im really tired today...)

 

Heck - anything that softens the front relative to the rear would help - the MC vs MCS front suspension is a neat idea, but pricey. I have a free alternative: I haven't taken a look at the mechanics but disconnecting the F sway bar would have a similar effect, but would increase body roll when cornering. Probably not a lot, as the MCS has such a low roll center anyway.

If doing this (from experience, but on other cars) you need to make sure the swaybar is either removed or wired up to prevent it from hitting anything under there if disconnected. For safety, disconnect both sides.

Also free.

 

You can shim the steering rack and make the front turn better. Sway bar is much easier though.

 

Well now that's just blasphemy, get some sleep man.

 

Now with slightly less petrol, and a little bit cooler weather I tried to find a weak spot and get he car to break loose a little, and all I ended up with was loads more grip than I expected to the point it scared me how much I was turning in. And interesting part is I'm still on summer tires.

THe only thing I can think of is I left her on jacks friday night into satuday morning so perhaps the extended time in the air and then the re lowering allowed the suspension to settle better?

 

wat? you want to break your car loose? turn off DSC take a quick turn
and in the middle of the turn let off your throttle.

no, don't do that!

 

Nono trying to induce understeer break loose, but I held back upshifting so I'd dive in at 1k more revs and the LSD seemed to be functioning better and it went exactly where I pointed it and is I ease off it got super tight.