MTH. GIAC. Bluefin. UniChip or JCW(although i know that JCW ecu flash doesn't sell it alone)
which one has most TORQUE gain at LOW—meaning relatively lower than their peak point in their ads—RPM?

i am a quite 'normal' driver far from 'removing high rev limit' aspect or 125BHP@6500RPM thing. shift up around 3000 when the engine start to cry and use 3rd and 4th most of the time unless i am on the highway. never race on a track. despite my love for everything on my new MC, i do feel some lack of power—TORQUE, translative-ly—especially when i go up some hilly local roads. i know it's still doing great, considering a relatively small sub-2k cc engine. but we all know that the anxiousness stands somewhere higher than reality always.

so. here comes my question. forget about their 'peak' performance at the highest RPM or numbers of the horses at BRAKE, whatsoever. "what chip gives us most 'useful' gain of torque at low-med 'real life' rpm, do youguys think?"
anyone have a reliable data compiled? again, i am not looking for a 20 horses with only one chip—i mean a flash—so please don't refer me a 'physical' mode i.e) intake. header. exhaust etc. all i need is a bit smoother—powerful—torque at a real-life RPM, humble and moderately.


thanks very much for your kind inputs in advance.

'06 MC, pepper white
palisades park, NJ.

 

Welcome orangeology.

That is a good question. I am also looking for the best low end torque numbers i can get out of the MC. I haven't yet found any reliable data that shows that one chip is better than another. Given that the MC's engine is tiny and is tuned well out of the factory, it is very unlikely that one ECU flash will give results that are drastically different from another, its not like you are tuning a WRX STi engine. I spoke to Eric from Helix a while back and his comments on the GIAC was that they tuned for area under the curve, throughout the rev range, not just mid and upper rpms. Unfortunatly, we don't have any dyno information on how a stock mini reacts to the GIAC flash. The only MC i know of that has GIAC is one that has an intake and an exhuast. Of course MTH is another option, but it annoys me that they claim 140hp from their flash, that is BS and is pretty much impossible.

I know you said you didn't want an exhaust or intake but the GRM project team had very nice mid range torque gains with the MyMINI sport exhaust. Its understated and not very loud, also one of the lightest and cheapest on the market. They saw a reduction of half a second in 0-60 times, mostly due to better midrange.

Hope this helps.

 

Unfortunatly, I don't think MyMINI is selling the Sport anymore. From their website:

The MyMini Sports system has been deleted from our inventory. We are now out of these units and will not re-stock them. We are preparing to build a new system, similar to our MCS system. Stay tuned! In the meantime, if you want a comparable system for your Cooper, we can supply the Touring with a straight front pipe.

I don't know how similar the Touring w/o the resonator is. I'm watching closely to see what new one they come up with. Anyone have any info on it?

 

About two weeks ago I did the standard MTH flash on my 2006 Cooper Cabrio. I did the standard flash (10hp) because I didn't care about horsepower gains and I was skeptical of the claims of the gains with the tuner file (20hp) with no added physical mods. The standard file was half as much as the tuner.

My goal was to smooth things out between the gears and get more torque in the low end. The change has been dramatic and my Cooper feels like a different car. I have more power everywhere, no hiccups in the low gears and my gas mileage has improved slightly.

I can't speak about the other tuning products you mentioned, but I can say for me $190 on the MTH standard file was money well spent. I'm betting it would help you climb your hills and also put a smile on your face.

 

2-3 ft.lbs of torque increase across the rpm range with GIAC. Keep in mind, I'm the one with the intake and exhaust mentioned about, so stock results may vary. But this is a noticable gain, and makes the car more responsive and quicker.

Dave

 

I did the MTH standard file just like MINI Bee, and I can say that I got the same positive results.

 

I've got the Touring with the resonator, (didn't want any highway resonance), and it's great. Looks good, has a nice deep tone, and is quiet when I want it to be.

 

My 03' MC feels smoother and has more zip since I got the last MINI ECU upgrade in September.....and it was free.

 

great help. really appreciate all inputs. thanks, guys.

all the best,
orangeology

 

I am watching this thread carefully as i'm planning to upgrade my MC for xmas already have intake and exaust tires and rims.Primarily looking at MTH but not hard and fast on it.Whats with the free upgrade from BMW,i have an 03 cooper and not aware of it,would be cool to try it before flashing if it's free.enlighten me Thanks

 

This is why I think Eric should have included another car in his first round of GIAC uprades and dynos. More specifically my car, which is 100% stock on the drivetrain front. Dave, don't get me wrong, I think your experience has been helpful and you have been very good about posting your impressions, and form some people who are already running an exhaust and an intake it is very valuable. Unfortunately, the dyno results and impressions you had do not really describe how the GIAC works on a stock MC, making comparisons between MTH and GIAC (something I am going through) difficult, if not impossible.

You reading this Eric? my offer to use my stock MC as another dyno lab rat still stands. I think it will give people with stock MCs a better chance to compare the GIAC system to MTH.

 

vano, you are right about how helpful the results of a stock MC with the GIAC would be. I'm pretty sure that Eric at Helix said he was interested in testing more than 1 MC over on the GIAC thread. I just happened to be the first (and it seems, only) MC owner to take the plunge. It may just be a matter of waiting for someone to give the GIAC a shot. Anyone within driving distance of Philly with a stock MC?

 

Dave,

I live within an hour drive. I have been to Eric's place a few times and had the Helix front camber plates and rear control arms installed - they work great btw.

Back when Eric started that GIAC thread and announced he was looking for a donor MC, I spoke with him over the phone and said I would be interested. He told me that he already had a volunteer (you I guess) and would wait list me in case the first donor car fell thru. Therefore, at the time Eric definitely did not express any interest in having another completely stock MC go thru some dyno testing.

I will give him a call tomorrow again and see if he had a change of heart - having a solid dyno chart would help people on the board make a decision between MTH and GIAC, and if GIAC produces good results, should translate to more income for the Helix team.

 

the differences in power for Dave's car and a stock MC are going to be about 5-6 whp if i remember correctly, but definately give Eric a call tomorrow.

 

Alex is right about that. If I remember correctly, Eric dyno'd his stock cooper at 111 whp. Mine came is pre-chip at 116. So we have some idea of that the exhaust does. But I understand vano's point that we don't know the effect of GIAC on a totally stock Cooper, since the file may add some cumulative benefit to the existing mods I have.

I'd ply Eric with some really good beer and beg for a dyno run!

 

Already called Helix. The begging has begun

Yards is right next door too so beers shouldn't be a problem.

 

if there is going to be free beer involved ill make sure im there when this happens

 

dave, alex, vano:
youguys rock!

can't wait to see the result.
many thanks again.


orangeology.

 

Alex,

Did I speak to you this morning? Did you have a chance to run the idea by Eric? A case of Yards is on me.

 

No, you spoke to Dane or Ralph. I won't be in the shop until Thursday

 

I just spoke to Dane at Helix and was informed that Eric is not interested in having a stock MC flashed with GIAC and dyno tested. It is his business and his dyno so I am sure he has good reason for his decision.

This brings many of us here on the board back to square one: ECU manufacturers and retailers advertising their various products without any tangible data.

This is not a knock on Helix at all. Helix has many great products and professional service and installation. I am still in love with the Helix suspension components Eric installed on my car. Most likely the GIAC flash is every bit as good, or better, than the offerings from others like MTH. And I will probably still go for the GIAC flash prior to the next autox season.

It is just a bummer that we can't have something tangible to go by when making ECU purchasing decisions.

 

So is the GIAC ideally suited for a Cooper with an intake and exhaust? Or not necessarily?

 

Greg,

This is the kind of information we were trying to get to by having a stock MC with GIAC on a dyno. It would help us contrast ProfessorDave's car, which is running exhaust and intake, to a stock MC. That would tell us how much of a bump Dave's two mods combined with the GIAC give compared to a stock car running GIAC.

Some ECU companies, like MTH, claim that there is no benefit to running a CAI with the MTH, maybe even a loss of some power. My guess is that GIAC and MTH are going to be very similar in power and how they react to mods, there isn't a whole lot of room for improvisation with this engine.

 

I can certainly understand Eric's (Helix) position...they are pretty busy there, and a pre-post dyno run does take a bit of time. I'm hoping someone with a stock Cooper will bite the bullet and do the flash and pay for a dyno run.

(PS - I agree with vano that it is unlikely that an intake does much for power, chipped or not).

Still lovin' the GIAC!

 

I will probably be in Eric's shop in February getting the GIAC flash done, but given that I have no engine mods on the car, I will not be all that tempted to pay up for the dyno session. It is going to be hard to find an owner that is psyched about spending some $$ on a dyno in his stock MC.