[SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman]I recently took my Mini Cooper S in for the first scheduled maintenance at Mini of Dallas. While there, the technician asked me to accompany him to the shop to look at the tires. He pointed out that all four tires had excessive wear on the very inside of the tire. Two of the tires were so bad, that they were afraid they would not make it back to Austin. We discussed what could cause this, and everyone agreed that only bad alignment could cause this type of damage. They said the alignment was not covered under the warrantee. At Discount tire, the Service Manager also agreed that the alignment had to have caused this type of damage and sent me to another Discount store that had the proper tires. At this store, once again, the representative said they had never seen this bad of damage, at only 14,000 miles, and stated that it had to be a bad factory alignment. I had to replace all for tires at a cost of $1029.96 to ensure a safe trip back to Austin. [/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman] After returning to Austin, I took the car to Speedy Align for the alignment. The representative stated that the car was grossly out of alignment. I have the pre and post measurements that show the tow was way out on all four tires. The rest of the alignment was fine. He stated that there was no damage to any of the parts, including bending, that would cause the miss alignment. He also stated that there was no bolt movement in any of the alignment areas. He stated that the only source of the miss-alignment had to be the original manufacturer. [/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman] I’m now fighting it out with both the Dealer and corp. customer service. It’s very frustrating, I’m an honest person, if this was normal wear and tear I would accept ownership.[/FONT][/SIZE]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3] [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]Questions:[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]Has anyone seen this problem?[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]How many miles can you get with the OEM tires?[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]How do I convince Mini to reimburse me?[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3] [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]Help, Mini Tex [/SIZE][/FONT]

 

I have to ask, did you ever rotate the tire prior to this 14k service? I would think then this kind of problem would of been noticed before all 4 tires were trashed.

 

I haven't gotten 14k miles out of a set of tires yet - with faithful rotation. Guess it might have something to do with driving style?

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tirete....jsp?techid=43

In all seriousness, if you haven't been rotating the tires, that's a major issue... If you have, it may be due to a bad alignment - however, if the alignment is within factory specs, there's not a whole lot that you can do...

Any modifications to the car that may have changed alignment settings?

 

Good question. They are run flats and directional, the dealership recamends not to rotate. Not sure if I can trust what they say anymore. The tow was out so bad that only the very inside was damaged. You really couldn't see by visual inspection.

 

Even runflats need rotated... You can rotate directional tires front to back. This is especially necessary with the MINI, as it usually has a lot more negative camber in the rear than in the front.

Toe out would affect wear on the inside edge - were both the front and rear toe out of spec?

As an aside, not a lot of people are fond of MINI of Dallas...

 

Sorry, had to do work stuff.

How offten to you rotate?

Tow

Front

 

Sorry, had to do work stuff.

How often to you rotate?

Tow
pre left right post left right
Front -.77 1.29 .17 .17
Rear -1.03 .00 .01 .01

As you can see, way out......

Who to use if not Dallas?

 

I rotate at every oil change, which is 3K miles for me...

WOW, those are very interesting pre numbers... If nobody hit anything in the road, that's seems way, WAY out of spec...

 

Moritz in Arlington, IMHO.

 

They keep telling me the odds are very low that this would get past the factory quality controls.

I asked them what they thought the odds where of me doing something to cause only the tow to be effected, with no viable damage?????

No reply from them......

They just made an offer to pay for 50% of the tires. Should I take it????

 

The dealer says not to rotate, IMO, because they don't want people rotating too late (like 14k) and putting worn tires on the rear, where the better tires should always be (even in a front drive car). It's a foolproof way to ensure that they don't have any serious liability claims on their hands - "but the dealer said to rotate, that's why the bald tires are in the rear causing an uncontrollable spin, not unlike the one that killed goose in top gun!"


mb

 

I didn't know this car was such a light weight that you have to baby the tires... EMO Drive to work, rotate tires... Drive to work, rotate tires.... That's going to get old very quick....

How come nowhere in any of the maintenance documentation does it state to rotate at x miles?????

 

I think simply because normal car maintence practices should be used and not really what MINI says. Some people change their oil and rotate their tires together. Its not a bad idea, the car is in the air anyways. I like oil changes every 5 and tires @ 3 due to my driving style.

 

Tex,

I love the service that I've received at Moritz MINI in Arlington (My SA is Bryan... a great guy), though Gene (a local Metroplex MINI club member) is now a Service Advisor at MINI of Dallas (MoD) and he's a great guy. Several of our local club members have had issues with service at MoD (a few complaints posted about Moritz too) but I'm seeing signs of a service level turn-around there.

I'm a huge fan of rotating the tires and I go 'front to back' every 5k miles with my factory runflats. With a decent floor jack and a torque wrench, it takes only 10 minutes. I was under the impression, however, that MINI says 'do not rotate the tires', which takes the discussion about 'had you rotated, you would have seen it earlier, so MINI won't cover it' off the table.

Keep working with MINI USA. It sounds like the tow was way, WAY off the mark on 3 of the 4 wheels.

Please keep us updated.

If you haven't found us already, drop by www.MetroplexMINI.org.

 

See above. MINI does NOT recommend you rotate the tires. You'll be hard-pressed to find someone who has any experience with cars and tires who believes or listens to what they say regarding tire rotation (or oil changes for that matter).

I don't see it as babying the tires - 3k might be a little excessive - I do 5K and have even wear. It takes 15 minutes to rotate my tires - jack up from the front, rear gets raised too, swap the tires (that's if they're directional).

mb

 

Keep pressing... be polite but insistent until they can answer all of your questions.

I MIGHT consider the 50/50 split on tires if they covered the alignment at 100%, but this sounds like a 'from the factory' issue. The factory run-flats are notorious for their short lifespan on our little cars and you probably got 1/2 the life out of 'em.

 

Mini reccomends not rotating because the wear pattersn are different front to rear, and when you do rotate, you can have some interesting driving dynamics until the tread gets a bit of wear. If you know that no big deal, if you don't and go hammer it right after rotation, I've found that peak adhesion is reduced. (don't ask me how I know!).
Now this wouldn't be a problem if there were a bit more negative camber up front and a bit less out back...... But that's another thread....

And I'd take the 50%. It will take a lot of effort to get more, and there's no guarantee of success.

Matt

 

I can't believe you couldn't feel the bad alignment. The car must have pulled to the right like crazy!

I rotate tires everytime I change the oil.

 

Thanks for all the input, I'm getting some schooling here........ I will definitely start rotating at 5k

I think what is annoying me is that they can't see that they might be at fault.

-Nowhere does it say to rotate tires in the W docs
-There own Service people say they don't recommend rotation
-The Tow was the only thing out
-An alignment expert and store manager states that this had to be caused by bad factory alignment
-The odds of me doing something to only knock the tow out are astronomical

 

But the 50% offer is a good one. You don't have to fight about proof, nor do you have to fight about the fact that you took it somewhere else for work and tires (And their price for the stuff is much less that they sell them for!). So while I agree that you are without fault on this, there is a lot of grey area for them to delay and hide behind as well. Think about if you want to spend more time and effort on this, or if it's time to roll it all up and call it an expensive lesson learned. Really, they could have just dragged their heels, offerend nothing, and waitied till you went away....... Not much to do, as there's only speculation on original cause and no real proof. (I agree with the speculation, but that's not proof either!)

Matt

 

The car drove great. Mini service tech drove it, Discount tire drove it and alignment guy drove it realignment. All agreed it drove fine. All agree that it was because only the tow was out.

 

Great summation Matt..........

You know exactly how I'm feeling, and I think your dead on with where this could go, or could have gone.

I think its time to move on......
Don't know how I feel about mini at this time, but I can tell everyone I love this web site. You all have a new member, and I will be as active as possible.

Thanks,
Craig

 

I think you have just seen some odd advice from MINI techs. But they sound amazing to even offer to compensate you at all.

 

many a happy mini owner who is less than satisfied with the everage level of survice we get from many of the dealers. There are gems out there, but sadly, they seem more rare than any of us would like. Don't hold your Mini accountable for your dealer, and find a local place that does Minis to start a relationship with for everything that you have to pay out of pocket. The warranty won't last forever, and finding a good shop is a lifetime relationship that will pay dividends every time you have a difficult problem...

Good luck and have fun!

Matt

 

Take the 50%, IMHO - after 14k miles, I'm surprised they offered anything at all...

This discussion reminds me of MINI/BMW's "lifetime" gearbox lube and their famous 10K (or more) oil service intervals. Ask any independent shop and they'll share plenty of stories about e46 motors that have been subjected to the "routine" 10-15k oil service intervals. Same goes for gearboxes, and doubly for both if you participate in ANY motorsports. Heck, read a copy of Roundel and you'll note that the Tech Guy mentions how high the BMW/MINI guys must have been when they spec'd that junk... Free maintenance? Yeah, maybe, if you don't wanna keep your car for 100K miles... I pity the people that eventually end up with all these used MINIs and BMWs that have been subjected to the factory maintenance schedules... ugh. I know I wouldn't buy one, unless the owner changed the oil more than that...

You can rotate the tires front to back on the same side, no problem - you just can't cross them because they are directional. At least, that's my philosophy...