Hi all, I've been lucky enough to get my hands on the Dinan S demo car for a couple of days, and all I can say is they really know how to sort a car. It's rated at 209 HP, and while I didn't dyno it, I have no reason to doubt their claims. All the time and effort they put into developement shure shows through, and the car is a pleasure to drive.

Highs: Good, smooth power. No stumbles, flat spots, yo-yos or the like. Excellent suspension, even though it's not that low, and is sporting some custom 18" wheels shod in 225-35 18s. The car is smoother with this stuff than a stock S is with the run flat 17s.

Lows: I have to give it back. Boo hoo hoo.

FWIW, it's started as an 02 S, and has just shy of 23k miles on it.

Also interesting to note: Dinan has a deal with Mini (and BMW) where they each warranty thier own contributions, and Mini/BMW agrees not to void the rest of the warranty because the Dinan stuff is on the car. If they can't figure out who should pay, the split the cost. The customer doesn't see any of this, in case a repair is needed, the car just gets fixed, and the two companies figure it all out behind the scenes.

I had my wife drive it to see what she though, and she liked it a lot too. While I can remember the rather un-car enthusiast vocabulary she used to describe it, I think she meant to say that the car is smoother in power delivery, and the suspension is smoother as well, than what I've put together to date.

Anyway, they have excellent product, and it really shows. At one point in my testing, I took it to a speed faster than I'd ever gone in a Mini, and it was rock solid. It felt like I could take my hands off the steering wheel and it would track fine. I didn't, but it sure felt solid, and would give any driver confidence to look for thier own limit in comfort and skill.

All in all, a job very well done.....

Matt

 

Nice review, thanks, Doc !~

 

Good little review,

Is it going to available through the dealer or Dinan only ?
I don't know if there are any *certified* Dinan dist. or install places up here in the Artic !

 

I think that says it all, great review

 

they're currently selling through 40 or so of the current Mini dealers. They have to negotiate with each one individually, so they're adding one or two a month.

Matt

 

This is ONLY true if the MINI/BMW dealership is an authorized Dinan dealer.

 

and thanks for the addition.....

Matt

 

Are you saying that if the BMW dealer is a Dinan dealer and they have not negotiated with the MINI side of the house, they MINI service will not install the cars with the Dinan warranty?

 

Any pictures ?

 

thanks for the great reviewn Now if they would only make one for the automatic S.
How did the exhuast sound?

 

if the BMW side does Dinan installs, they probably do MINI too. if the MINI/BMW dealer doesn't do Dinan, then no warranty coverage at that dealership.

 

And for cars made after 11/04....

 

What Dinan products were on the car? They offer a wide range of mods: http://www.dinancars.com/Mini.asp?Se...is=40&Model=91

What is your sense of performance/quality/price of Dinan vs. other aftermarket?

 

1) I'm no expert on the detials of the Dinan warranty. I'd get in touch with them for exact details....

2) It was the 209 HP package. I think that's an intake, exhaust, pulley, modified fuel delivery, ECU map and throttle body.

3) I think the suspension was thier shocks (custom done Konis) springs, wheels and tires, not sure about a rear bar, but I'm pretty sure it's there because the car was so neutral, and front fixed camber plates. BBK as well. And there was a strut tower bar as well.

4) Good value for $, but you kind of get locked into them (at least per side, power and suspension) because they design integrated systems, not just a set of bolt ons....

5) Exhaust sounded good.

Like I said, I like the car a lot. It's impressive. My wife noticed how smooth it was as well. I don't know the total out the door cost, but it's less than the equavalent JCW.....

Matt

 

<<BIG SIGH>> Waiting on the '06 software.


Several in our club here in TN are Dinan-ites and are very very happy with the performance.
We travel a some with Phil Wicks and the cars are pushed quite a bit.

 

I'll preface this by saying that I have not driven a Dinan-equipped Mini and have no reason to doubt anything that Dr. O has stated in his review.

The warranty issue is a bit more complex:

(1) Unless things have changed, I believe it's the individual dealership that honors the warranty. As far as Mini USA or BMW/NA goes, they have no part in the deal and your modded car will be treated in the same wary and suspicious manner as any other aftermarket-equipped car.

In other words if you buy a Dinan equipped Mini in Colorado, and the Dealer goes out of business, you have to either ship the car back to Morgan Hill or find another Dinan "Authorized Dealer" who may work on your car.

Keep in mind that in this second scenario, the alternative dealer is under no obligation to honor the warranty.

(2) I won't go into details, but I had a Dinan equipped BMW. After the sale, the Dealer cut off it's relationship with Dinan and refused to work on any components that Dinan had either installed on the car or could have possibly affected another component.

Integration of components? It's a similar exhaust to the Alta, a similar CAI to the JCW and other components that can be compared to other aftermarket tuners.

Unless someone can explain to me how a Dinan rear swaybar, a Dinan ECU tune, a Dinan CAI, Dinan pulley, a Dinan exhaust, etc are somehow more "integrated" than similar Webb, M7 or MM packages I remain skeptical.

Additionally, this whole business of the revised FPR was based on one man's (local tuner) experience with a modded Mini. I was lucky enough to sit next to the gentleman in question as he related the whole experience. His simple, self-admittedly a-typical issues with his fuel delivery system have apparently led to this claim on the Dinan site:

"extensive testing revealed that the stock fuel delivery system simply can’t keep up as boost and rpm increase. In order to address the lean condition at higher rpm, Dinan has developed fuel pressure regulators designed to ensure that adequate fuel is available in order to take full advantage of the additional boost pressure for maximum power output and reliability ."

Seriously, has anyone had issues with the 15% pulley, CAI and fuel pressure regulators? How about the JCW package?

Or is this the same extensive testing that led to the great undampened crank pulley scare of '06?

 

Watch one fall off, twice in the same day; it just may change your opinion on the crank pulley "scare"

 

I'm not referencing that.

I'm talking about Dinan's claim they performed extensive testing on undampended MCS crank pulleys and found long-term damage to the engine.

It turned out to be a load of hooey. Which admittedly they owned up to.

 

ok, I read it as crank pulley scare; and took it as though you were saying they are reliable and well they have a mixed history, enough so that many choose to go wihtout modding that part.

 

I agree 100% on your review and I drive mine daily..

 

I mean that they have dug deeper into the ECU than say, MTH, and that they don't do things like "send us your list of mods, and we'll bang out a tune for you". While this is a nice feature of MTH, I have it and it's not nearly as smooth across the powerband, has some issues with flat spots at light throttle etc. So they have done a very good tune for the package of components that they provide.

I have queried the ECU about duty cycles, and it thinks the injectors are open more than a full cam duration. The fact that the cars run so rich to start means that we have headroom, but the duty cycle is rather high. JCW upgrades the injectors for just this reason, and the approach of tweaking fuel pressures instead of injector sizing is a tried and true way to get more fuel, or to reduce duty cycles. Their ECU tune is modified to take this type of fuel delivery modification into account, not increased injector sizing.

Another example of integration is that they tune their own shocks for a given set of springs and ride height. There is less of a drop than many are running, and once again, it's not a "What spring are you running and we'll tune the shocks for your app" it's a "Dinan shocks are tuned for Dinan ride height and spring rates".

If you look at the warranty issue, at least there ARE other dealers to go to if you have an issue and your dealer has severed releations. How does that compare to other vendors? At least as good, or even better, as most of the other tuners are a single location.

If you want to KEEP the pulley debate of 04, 05 and 06 going, have at it. But you're just perpetuating something that has been (somewhat) responded to. The one that said testing of Minis retracted the Mini part, and while no definitive answer has come on Dinans position on Mini crank pulleys has be found, no one from Dinan is currently claiming to have testing results from a Mini. If you want to take what I can only call on of the Dinan's team mis-speaking about a specific point, and later cleared up, as an indication of incompetence, then put the whole human race there too. We've all been there.

As far as later ECUs, it's not my place to announce Dinan product releases, so I'm staying away from that one. Let's just say that I haven't seen a single other tuner with as much R&D staff, or in house manufacturing, as Dinan. While I'm sure they have some pissed customers, as all business do, they know what market they are aiming for, and they are good at what they do.

It's a very nice car. It is very well sorted. It doesn't feel like someone just bolted on stuff from vendor A, B and C. If my wife hadn't known that it was a modified car, she would have guessed that it came from a dealer (I found the ECU tuning much better than what I've gotten from Mini my self....)

It's a very nice package.....

Matt

 

Thanks Matt for this great thread. We are going the Dinan direction with our MCS.

Someone said they do not have a program for the '06, what program are they referring to?

Rick

 

the ECU changed for the 05 model year, I think, and it's different enough that it requires a "start from scratch" approach to hack.

Matt

 

Very true. But people need to understand that unless things have changed, the manufacturer does not bless this agreement, it's on a Dealer to Dealer basis.

Currently there are dealers (admittedly few) that support other packages. The drawbacks remain the same - what if you move to a state where there is no support? You are in the same boat as the rest of the guys who throw their mods together.

No one's looking to keep the debate open. Misinformation originated from them - and yes, they later cleared it up.

I think the FPR statement is similar- in a way. Seriously Matt, who has had fuel delivery issues at 205 hp? I'm running more than that and I can't tell a difference between the JCW and stock injectors even when running the JCW DME - no lights, no codes, nada.

Using a modified FPR in lieu of injectors is certainly novel, but I'd really love to see the extensive testing they did and compare it to the firsthand story that was related to me and several other members of this Board by a gentleman who was involved in their R&D - and this was before they were touting this on their website.

I'm sure it is - seriously. However, in comparing apples to apples, I have driven perhaps half a dozen fully modified MCS - and I'm not counting pulley and CAI jobs - I'm referring to pulleys, ECU tuning, CAIs, exhausts, the run of the mill suspension mods, including a MM car, and a car that was all M7 - and really, the cars are smooth.

The "lack of integration" or "refinement" or "pedigree" people refer to I think has to deal with more with comparing the full package to cars that are at various steps along the way to getting everything taken care of.

In other words, a car with just a pulley and a CAI is of course not going to seem as "integrated" as a Dinan or JCW package, but if the remaining components are upgraded (regardless of the manufacturer), comparing the smoothness of the packages is much more difficult.

I agree with you 100% on the ECU. I think the greatest room for improvement on the stock MCS has always been the ECU, including the JCW DME. It's sad when a $75.00 downloadable tune dramatically increases the refinement of these cars.

Dinan is perhaps the best known BMW tuner in the States and they did not get that status by accident. This also allows the consumer to easily research their packages and find out for themselves about warranty support and customer service.

 

Since Dr. O (wisely in my opinion) decided not to speak for Dinan's efforts to release software for '05+ cars, I wonder if anyone from Dinan wants to join this thread? In particular, is Dinan going to release software for the 05+ MCS? I personally would be interested to learn about product plans for the MCSa; I imagine there would be at least one or two other members who would likewise be interested to learn about Dinan's plans for the MCSa.