I just installed the Wilwood factory kit from Todd at TCE. We installed the Plus 1 with the upgraded 12.2 race rotors. We did two cars, my street/track MCS JCW and my friends highly modded MSC which he is getting ready to take on 1 Lap of America again.

Simple and easy to install with the most time spent safety wiring the bolts that hold the rotors to the hats.

Todd recommended street and track pads and so far, the street BP-10 pads are great. I can't wait to get to the Glen next month to try out the track pads.

After years of swapping BMW pads by removing the caliper, I am looking forward to the simple Wilwood design.

Todd - thanks for answering all our stupid questions... again and again!!!

Vince

 

As they say; "the only stupid question is the one you don't ask".

Glad to help out. Hope you have a great time at the Glen.

 

You helped Stu ?

I will see him soon ...we shall ride

 

Thanks again Todd - you're the best.

Dr Stu's 1 Lap car is coming nicely and we are both loving the Wilwood kits for our respective cars. Thanks for the advise on the Plus 1 with the 12.2 race rotor.

And I am sure i will be calling about a rear kit... the stock rear brakes look so small

As an aside, other than a slight appearance difference (which I have now), the TCE rear kit is a bolt up and will work with the front Plus 1 with the 12.2 race rotor? I have the ASA AR1 wheels, so they have enough wheel hiding the rotors and hats that I wouldn't need an exact match.

Vince

 

Do I smell a challenge?? LOL

The rear kits can be built to match the front kit. However due to hat changes there is a small amount of clearancing of the stock floater bracket to clear the new hardware. Not rocket science.

Or if you prefer; you can have non matching parts. And no grinding.

 

I am thinking of upgrading the brakes on a 06 MCS... If I want to be able to run 15 inch rims, will the 11.75" rotors work front and rear? I am thinking of using Centerline 15x7 Storm wheels.

Also, as an approximate, what % increase in braking performance would be realistic over the stock brakes (with better pads) with the Wildwood 11.75" rotors and calipers.

 

MinTX,
The front kit will fit 'many 15s' however I'd certainly check the fit using the pdf on the Wilwood home page (not on the TCE pages, click the kit number on the Wilwood page) and see what spoke clearance you have to work with.

The rear kit however will not fit 15s without some custom grinding. I've never tried it but having done a similar fit on a Gallant VR4 rally car we had to shave the bridge of the caliper as it was simply too tall to fit inside the wheel. Not the best plan but it works. How much on a MINI? Until it fits I suppose. Only then can you decide if you want to do it...a junkyard rear caliper would be nice.

As for the % of performance increase that's hard to quantify. In what respect? Brake torque being a value it can be achieved in many ways- rotor OD, piston area, pressure, pad choice...the term "braking power" is often used and it's just rubbish. I could tell you that you'd get more tq with less pressure perhaps but the ultimate stop is based on the limit of tire adhesion. How you get there is all you are changing.

On the other hand you might ask about weight savings. Or fade resistance. Or clamping and release response. Or even the ease of pad changes for the track. All of that can be considered a performance gain.

In short; for a 15" wheel I really doubt you'd do any better with ANYTHING else than this kit. Short of an unlimited budget perhaps.

 

Thanks Todd for the quick response

This car will be a street toy (not street racing) so my goal is to enhance control. I may take it for a spin on a road course track just for fun, but not in a racing environment.

My reason for 15's has just been bad luck in Houston with rubbing the 17 inch rims with 40-45 series tires on two different cars. A little taller sidewall on a 205-55-15 will help with that,,, plus the lighter wheels and tires wont hurt things.

Of course, you cant beat the price on 205-55-15 tires, I could almost put new ones on every 10,000 miles and still be cheaper then replacing the 17 inch run flats.

 

Sounds like the perfect fit to me. Shall I write it up?

 

I'm also considering a Wilwood swap for my stock brake sets. Q: I run 17 inch S-lites in the good weather and 16 inch Kosei K1s during the winter. I'm not interested in using wheel spacers, so a don't want a big brake kit that would require such with my choice of wheels. Taking these parameters into consideration am I safer with a 11.75 or 12.2 rotor diameter? Also do you recommend upgrades for both front and rear, or is front sufficient for street and occasional auto-x/ driving school use?

 

1. Pull up the pdf and check fit the wheels. This will determine the potential fit issues. The S lites are rather tight from what I recall and you may not be able to run either. (maybe someone can chime in on what they run) Spacers on those could be a given.

2. The 12.2 can be had with the better rotors just as the 11.75 can be had with the booted calipers etc. You tell me what you need and I'll make it happen.

3. Rears for the car are far more costmetic than function. That being said, I can make rears that match the front kits as well. For street and the occasional AX the front kit would prove ample I'm sure. That's up to you.

 

That's my big question....I want a BBK (I track the car several times a season) but during the winter snow season need to re-install my 17" S-Lites with all season tread.

What TCE kit will work with 17" S-Lite wheels, and if spacers are needed, what size?

I have looked at the pdf chart on the website but am still unsure.

Any comments from folks with real world experience would be most helpful.

 

Hello Todd, i'm at VIR now. it's quiet hour. Thanks for telling me to go up a level on my track pads. they work like a champ. I'm the only non full fledged race ferrari in my run group. the brakes and track rubber make all the difference

 

Pull a wheel and mock up the pdf specs. Two rulers is all you need.
Also, given the drop-dead simple, bolt up of the smaller kits you could even consider swaping back to stock brakes.

 

Todd,

I thought the rear kit was more of a look type of thing...given the Mini's really good rear bias??? I'm actually thinking of installing a proportioner.

BradB,

I'm in the same boat. A half hour a side to reinstall the stock brakes, very simple...okay, 45 minutes a side.

 

Rear kits:
The real reason for the existance of my rear kit was to compliment the 13" front kits. Yes I have produced a few rears that have gone to customers with smaller front kits. (it's only those which have had a couple of issues with clearance, I'll cure that in short order as well) The thought of a smaller rear kit for the smaller front was kicked around but the brackets just won't work well. Sticking with the 11.75 assures me of good fit without too much cable stretch and is a popular rotor used on other rear kits.

The fit of the rear with one of the smaller kits up front is so-so with regard to brake bias, appearance, and proposed swap out for the winter. It's a lot of rear rotor balanced against a change of piston area up front, pad compound choices and the like. Swap time is more works and it will NOT fit a 15 without some sort of caliper grinding to make it fit.

Installing a proportioning valve should not be needed if the parts are paired correctly. More over this will prove far more difficult than you may think. The circuits are independant and would require two valves. Or be tee'd which then effects pressure issues to one side (now both) in the event of abs pressure changes. It's just a messy deal not worth the effort except for guys like Greg who are doing dual MCs for the brakes. (even then a balance bar is better)

Side notes:
I recently did a four wheel install of the 13" front kit and the rear kit. Total time on it was about 3hrs from start to final bedding and sending him down the road. Yea, I kinda know what goes where but none of these are really very difficult.

Strange issue I encountered was on the rear with this one. The pads seem to strip the zinc and build up deposits in the slots. We found the need to clear the slots a couple of times to remove it. The fronts did not do this so I'm not sure what the stock pads are in the rear but they are abrasive.

I also noted after fitting the bronze bushing kit (also in that 3hrs) that there seems to be a bit of pad/caliper knock in the factory braket. Tic-tic as we rotate the wheel. Having pulled a caliper and checked the rotor alone I am certain it's not rotor related. Seems to be more pad float than I'd have thought for a stock pad.

 

So...should I consider a rear kit to match the 12.2 I have now - mine is an upgraded 11.75; 12.2 directional vaned rotor with all the stainless steel.

The car is a little squirely under threshold braking...trailing braking is definately a no no with my current setup - on road courses. But, I'm not sure if I'm also getting some rear steer from the trailing arm bushings. I'm having some poly inserts made...they're not read yet though. I sent you a PM about the front pads.

 

Squirely as in the rear is wandering? If so I'd be leary of too much rear brake being added. Wandering in the front might have me looking at the toe results in bump.

More qualified guys can speak up, but I'd guess much of this is due to the short wheelbase of the car as well.

 

Rear! Front end is very stable - near zero toe change in bump with the Mini - FYI. In reality, this may have nothing to do with braking. I simply left the rear bakes stock so I didn't complicate late braking. I've lots more set-up work to think about. Any advise is always welcome...