For those with aftermarket springs: i notice in a lot of your signatures that a LOT of you do not have aftermarket struts, which leads me to believe that you are running the stock ones.

From my personal experience with lowered cars and stock struts the struts will blow out prematurely and cause bouncing.

Well here is my question, is there no middle ground with aftermarket struts??? everywhere i see the set of koni struts priced at around 600 dollars, and couple that to a set of 200 dollar springs you are down for around 800 dollars for a nice handling set of springs and struts.

Why wouldnt you just save for the 1100 (around this price) set of coil overs and get unlimited adjustability. I know you may never get it perfect, but it is at least as good if not better than just springs and aftermarket struts alone.

Any input please? i am just baffled because on my old rx7 i got a full set of KYB adjustables for 300 dollars shipped new, and they were every bit as good as a set of konis? is it just the me or are mini prices out in left field.

scott

 

i guess not everybody needed the performance part of a set of coilovers? at least, thats my case. i just recently decide to go with springs instead of coils, simply because i don't need the "unlimited adjustability" of coilovers. i just want to stance of the springs, and for what it cost, i can do some other mods.

sport structs sometimes are later addon to the springs ppl have on their cars, it's like a step by step investment. i won't be installing the sport structs just yet, maybe at a later time when i want to spare that $$.

hope this sort of gives u a picture of why people choose differently

 

Hello Defylogic,

That is a very good point , here is my opinion,

The best set up for the street: when running lowered springs is to have some good aftermarket shocks (like the koni yellows) designed to work with the lowered ride.

You are right in your statement, the factory shocks are not designed to work with lowered springs.

Regarding the coil overs, they should be used only on racecars or for people that want to lower their car a lot (more then 1.5-2")

Here is the problem with coilovers, there are noisy for the street, and they should be adjusted on scales (corner balanced).
The tape measure deal should only be for initial set up.

I am wondering how many cars are out there with the corner balance completely wrong or a different weight ratio front to back,
this is one of the major reasons for bad handling.

Victor

 

theres a good chance that thier life will be shorter, but the fit is between dampening and spring rate. With a lot of the progressive springs, they're actually softer than stock initially. You'll get into trouble when you hit a pot hole with a load on the springs (like during breaking) when the struts run out of travel....

I know of two people who didn't corner balance when we got out adjustables. Me and TonyB. When he finaly got his full alignment done, it was a world of difference. I was fairly close on the corner weights (about 49%/51%) with the "looks good while parked in the driveway), but the ride height was way too low in the front. When it was all set up properly and aligned, I didn't notice a HUGE difference, but the g-force indicator went higher than ever before on the track.....

But that said, I think Victor has a point. Most who get the coil overs are leaving a lot of performance to be had, and maybe actually decreasing handling, by not getting them adjusted properly.

Oh yeah, the thread topic. You can live with the stock struts for a while with lowering springs, but I'd stick with the more mild drops. But the price range for adjustables is from pretty inexpensive (for what you get) to OMFG! I have to sell one of my body parts and get back to you.

Matt

 

Hasn't Kenchan been running the h-sports for the longest time now? I really want to get the h-sports, but the fact that I will later have to spring for $600 shocks is holding me back. I almost might as well save the money and spring for coilovers.

 

and didn't blow out my stock struts. Then I got a set of Ledas used.... But check with TonyB! Most of the adjustables have much less travel than the stock struts. he went through a lot before settling on PSS9s. But what's the big deal, get the springs, and start saving. When and if you blow out your struts, it will be time to buy!

Matt

 

good replies!

here is a few thoughts on the topic, as a response to some of the responses. just from my experience, i have put sport springs on 3 cars that i have owned, and on all three of them, none of the springs have been exactly the same length. I am not talking about cheap springs either. on my rx7 (which had the kyb adjustables, the springs were made by eibach, and were definitly not all 100% equal f/f and r/r. i also had a set of suspension techniques on my supra with koni blues and those were even farther off than the eibachs.

i have heard people give the life of stock struts and drop springs between 5k miles all the way to 20k miles. has anyone ever run a long time on a stock strut?

also for my supra i had some prototype upper strut mounts that were polyeurethane, and half the depth of the normal strut perch. ended up lowering the car into a nice tuck in the front, but kept the full travel of the suspension. why has no one developed something like this yet for the mini?

it just seems for the price, you are almost better off with the coilovers if you know someone who can help you balance the car.

heres another q for ya, who makes linear rate springs? i know the tein springs are linear rate ( at least from the picture...). and also if you stay with a linear rate spring, that lowers and is a little stiffer, will the stock dampening of the strut last longer as it is not bottoming out the dampening force as much.

this is a good discussion.. lowered minis look pretty good, over stock suspension, but stock suspension does handle really good to begin with, so it is more for looks than anything and a little edge in performance.

scott

 

I've been on stock struts w/ H-sports for about 17K miles and I have yet to notice a difference since the initial install. I would imagine that around 23-25K on the stockers I would start to notice them failing rather than at the usual 35-40K.

 

to be honest, people dont give the stock struts enuf credit that they deserve. they are pretty dam decent struts imho (check out the $$ for the oem ones, more than some aftermarket ones - not that the $$ means they are technically better, but just something worth noting).

loads and loads of peepz are running springs on stock struts and ok. shocks will wear out (duh wear and tear what u expect) but LONG LONG term.

but ofcourse u will only hear about nightmare stories (from vendors Lol) and say u gotta buy aftermarket struts.

whatever lol.

 

Shocks blowing out because of lowered springs is right there with the blinker fluid and muffler bearings. It does, however, give the retailers a good angle for the impressionable!

 

the 2003's come with higher damp rate so it matches the h-sport
springs well. i've yet to feel that i NEED to replace my dampers although
i'll probably need to replace them earlier than running just stock springs
as they are slightly higher spring rate. so far so good...might not even
need to replace them while I own the car.

also, not always can you find low spring rates in coilover setups. that
is the main reason why sometimes i just opt for the springs and see how
they work with the stock dampers. if the springs feel too underdamped
i'll swapout the dampers later. i just take it a step at a time.

my other car is running springs from 2 different manufacturers that
i trial/errored and running adjustable dampers. on that car it took a little
more effort than my MCS to get it 'just right.'

 

kenchan, you car looks good with those wheels and the h-sport springs. i never really liked the aero kit (which is why i never thought about getting it) but it does look pretty damn nice in that deep blue color i must say!

scott

 

many people repeat the line about lowering springs wearing out shocks, but i've only gotten one reply when i've asked what EXACTLY causes the premature wear: that claim is that the increased gas pressure inside the lowered shock causes seals to wear more quickly.

i can buy this more easily with 'high' pressure monotube shocks, but since the mini stockers are a 'low' pressure twin tube dsign, i wonder...

a guy on the eibach tech line said that for the purpose of figuring wear, their lowering springs will cause the mini shock to act as if there was a load in the car that had lowered it the same amount as the springs and that the shock life difference would be neglible.

i was actually talked OUT of buying coilovers by randy web. he argued that for the spirited street driving i do, the expense and hassle of adjusting the coilovers wasn't worth it. he said installing lowering springs was much more of a plug n' play than trying to get the coilovers correctly set up.

after 3 years on the eibach springs, i'm looking for coilovers just for a little more lowering.

 

i thought that the reason that the shocks get worn out faster is because doesnt the strut move up and down faster with a higher spring rate ( more compression and rebound movement) than with a normal spring.

i have been thinking h-sports, but i hate progressive springs. anyone suggest a 1" or so drop linear rate spring?

scott

 

but what do I know, mine were fine! But there are lots of people who reported strut failure with lowering springs. YMMV....

Matt

 

I have the Megans - adjustable coilovers. These are different from most; lowering the car does not affect suspension travel.

With regard to comfort, I would disagree with Victor; most adjustable coilovers ARE designed with strong damping and spring rate relationships. Therefore, these work better than off-the-shelf components - read, more comfortable/controllable.

The bound rate on the Megans is quite nice for daily commuting. The 32 adjustment range is quite huge. Mine is being corner balanced today.

From my perspective, adjustable coilovers are the only way to go if you plan to track your car. If not, Koni's FSD seems like a great setup.

Stock dampers with lowering springs; more piston movement range, more cycles = more heat. The degree depends upon the spring rate and low. It is not considered a good idea.

 

pizza + cola is not considerd a good healthy idea either, doc.


Thanks, defylogik.

 

I once used pizza for wheels...but then, I'm very old. The coke...with a little baking soda makes for great hydraulic fluid

And you are correct Kenchan, everyone will have a different experience. I love your sense of humor!

 

is that where this extra 15lb spare tire came from around my waist... i was wondering...

 

I have been running Vogtland springs and stock sruts for 40,000 miles (at 48,000 now,) autocrossed about 14 times. Still going strong.

 

yeh, but we usually use lowering springs when we want to lower the
ride.

 

thanks for playing with me, meb. you're a great sport.

 

>> H-Sport Springs with 28,000 miles and all is well. Now FSD's with the H-Sport's and 500 miles and all is well.


>> MINIMAX 1

 

I tried some Eibachs with stock shocks last summer. I have PS9's now. Driving through Boston was like shooting a big gun (flinching). I used to close my eyes just before hitting all the bad stuff in the road (potholes, grates etc.). Sometimes I thought I saw stars!. I thought it was the RDR camber plates. The RDR plates are just fine with the PS9's. One point. It's hard to judge shock / springs after switching on your own car. And the change in ride even over a few thousand miles may not be noticeable by most of us. It takes a side by side driving experience (over bad road) with another standard car to get a full appreciation of the difference the switch has made. Most of us do not have the time to test out all the combos and so our impressions come from very limited experience (with this car). I though the RDR plates contributed to the banging, they didn't. Another point. General advice about shocks and springs from other car owners (not mini) may not be valid as their cars suspension right out of the box was not as low or controlled as the stock MINI's. This leaves a lot of room for improvement for the after market people to work with.

 

pmello: is that because the shocks were bottoming out and riding on the bump stops or just the quality of the eibach springs?

scott