So this past weekend, I installed my RSpeed 22mm Sway Bar and the H-Sport springs I got off a NAMer on my '03 Cooper. Took me around 8 hours to do both. The rear sway and springs were relatively easy. The front struts were more difficult to remove, but using those cheap HF spring compressors was a breeze.

I still have my R83--5 Stars wrapped with Falken Ziex 512 btw. Guess that will be the next mod--new wheels.

The ride quality has not gotten worse as I was expecting--that is, the ride over bumps and speed bumps isn't more jarring than it used to be. I had the oem SS not SS+ springs.

I put the 22mm Sway bar on the softest setting. I'm assuming the outer hole (end of the bar) is the softest, and first thing I noticed is that when cornering hard, it's definitely flatter and more precise as most people describe, but what I didn't realize was that the understeer, that I got used to isn't there anymore. I used to fully expect the front end to slide on this turn, but in fact, I almost hit the curb the first time I took the turn. My Falkens (edited cause I had a brain burp on my tires) definitely felt stickier and the DSC didn't come on either. I used to wonder how much better it was with a larger sway bar, there really is a difference.

Now the question. On the track, I preferred to drive without DSC as I found that I could throttle steer to compensate for lack of traction, but now that I've got a stiffer swaybar, does that mean my margin or cushion for error is a lot slimmer? I.e, would it be safer to keep DSC on now since if the wheels are sliding, maybe it's really a sign of bad news?

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Richard

 

Keep the DSC on for the first session out. If you find that you are getting the DSC to kick in a lot, you're going to have to adjust before you turn the DSC off. If the DSC light doesn't flicker because of oversteer, turn it off and have fun.

If you have a chance to do it, a skidpad session would be the way to learn the new car setup. It's too bad it's hard to find skidpad time, though. An autocross would be good too. Anything where there is less to hit when you spin.

 

Thanks! Yeah I feel a little uneasy now, only cause I feel like I've spent 2 years learning how my Cooper handles, only now to have to relearn things again. I was talking to DiD yesterday after I did my swaybar and he was telling me he had a 22mm on his MCS and it felt kinda scary in the wet--as far as making any sudden movements.

Guess I'm not looking forward to finding out about that!

Richard

 

Whatever you do, don't lift in the corners... IMHO, an autocross is the perfect place to learn how different your car will behave - and you may find you have to dial out some rear swaybar, depending on your results.

You'll want to be just as smooth - and smoother. You'll still find that you can adjust the car's attitude through the corners with the throttle... I think you'll like it.

As far as DSC is concerned, I think it's way too intrusive and won't let you feel what the car's doing. It kicks in too early - you won't be able to tell if you need to adjust the rear bar or not. That being said, it's a safety device. I might be inclined to use it the first time out if there's a bunch of hard stuff to hit - then again, I probably wouldn't.

 

Its always good to feel a little uneasy, but if you've been doing this for two years, I wouldn't worry too much. I've yet to track my MINI so I can't comment on how radical a handling change this is, but in the end most of what the cars is and does will be the same, it will still be FWD, it will still be nose heavy, etc. Start out on the softest setting and if the car's still understeering too much for you, stiffen to taste. I'd echo the comment that it would be wise to AX the car prior to tracking it so you can get a sense of what's changed. Presumably it should rotate a little faster, but given a couple of years of experience I would assume you won't be overly surprised by anything. IMO from my experience with DSC on track (not in a MINI) its pretty intrusive and in the end, you're gonna need to shut it off and just understand directly what the car is doing.

As a data point, over the past few winters, I've dropped in full suspensions going from performance to high peformance to a fully adjustable race coilver setup. Upped HP by 70% one season. Each spring after I had done that, I felt exactly as you do now, a little worried. This by the way in a 35 year old tin can with 0 electronics. Each spring the initial setup of the car was, ahem, less than perfect. You know what? No spins, no crashes, no incidents of any kind, despite the car completely different. I'm no pro, if I can rebuild an entire car and survive, you can handle a new swaybar, so be confident. If you've got good butt feel, just slowly work your way up to it, but I suspect inside of three or four laps you'll have a pretty good idea of what you can and cannot do. Evolution, self preservation and your brain are the best driving computer you can possibly have. I doubt they will let you down.

 

If by 'error' you mean going too hot into a turn, then I'd say 'yes'. With the bigger sway bar you'll have less understeer, and possibly even oversteer. Welcome to the world of 'lift throttle oversteer'. This occurs when you're proceeding through a turn, (assuming neutral - neither end is sliding) when you lift the throttle (assuming you've been on the throttle) you shift weight from the rear to the front. Now your equally weighted car is unequal, and the tail end can come around, as it's on the back of the pendulum. The counter-intuitive solution is to get back on the gas - this transfers weight to the back, so the rear tires can regain their grip.
With the terminally understeering stock setup, you can (at least I could) lift anywhere and everywhere without causing any issues.

I did a track day with the stock (MCS) setup at Buttonwillow, and plowed all day. Put on a 22mm bar and went to Laguna, and it felt MUCH better. Instead of plowing, it felt neutral. I DID spin in turn 11 once - came in too hot, and lifted in the middle of the turn. Oops.

The car will be less forgiving now, but more fun.
The two main rules:
1) Do all your braking in a straight line
2) Don't abruptly lift off the throttle in a turn.

I don't know how the springs will affect the handling, as I'd assume you stiffen up the front as much as the rear. If the rears are relatively more stiff, then you'll have that much more understeer.

When you talk about the wheels sliding, you need to specify which ones. With the stock setup, most likely only the fronts would slide. Sliding wheels are only 'bad news' if you don't expect them to be sliding. I was on the OEM Pirellis, and was drifting nicely. If (only) the fronts are sliding, let off the gas so they can regain traction. If the (only) rears are sliding, get on the gas so they can regain traction. If you've REALLY cooked a turn, drive off and keep the wheels straight.
The danger is that with a more neutral handling car, you can take any given turn faster, so if you DO lose it, you'll do so at a higher rate of speed than you would have before. The only solution there is liberal braking and being aware of, and comfortable with, your speed.

I turn DSC off on the track. I did a lap at Buttonwillow with it on, but the DSC only came on as I was trying to power out of a turn, as the inside front wheel struggled for grip.

(edit: On the street I always leave DSC on. No corner workers to tell me about a slick spot, and no run off room...)