hi all !!! this is my 1st post (I just joined yesterday). I did do a search for this subject and unfortunately the post I found had no replies. To make a long story short I was thinking of doing a lightweight crank pulley this week while my motor is out. But , I talked to a friend of mine who said not to do it since I alreay have a lightweight flywheel. Is this a bad idea? If not, should I go w/ a lightweight crank pulley that is stock size or should I go for one of the alternate sizes?
thanks alot in advance for any help or advice.
Clint

 

I have a lot of hard canyon and even autocross miles on our 14.5 lb flywheel and .9 lb 2% crank pully with no issues.


Randy
M7 Tuning

 

No use asking about the crank pulley as everyone has different opinions. In my opinion it's a bad idea simply because there has not been enough miles put on a car with a light weight crank pulley to determine whether or not it will have harmful effects to the motor. If you purchase a lightweight crank pulley, I suggest getting one that will also act as a harmonic balancer.



As for the light weight flywheel, go for it Several hundred sold in the past years and they're as trouble free as can be.

 

I have the Spec flywheel and the Alta crank pulley. I had them installed at different times so I can say that while the flywheel definately changed drivability adding the crank pulley didn't make as big of a change. I say go for it.

 

Randy Webb has been using one for thousands of miles both street and track with no problems.. although we are still waiting on his official report.

 

I said long term... 70,000+ miles...

I could throw a dinner plate on there and I'm sure the car would still run for 5k miles :P Like I said, we'd much rather wait and see how these cars hold up for the long haul. Our experiences with light weight crank pulleys on other cars have not been good, which is why at this point in time we're staying away from them with the MINI.

 

Check out Steve Dinan's website re: pullies

 

What cars and what were the problems under what conditions?

 

Randy Webb finally posted his toughts on the crank pulley and had over 25K miles of testing. He give his mark of approval! This is something that interests me, but not positive if I will go this route as of yet.


Garrett

 

What other cars do you have experience with, and what were your problems with said cars - honest question, just curious about design differences in the brands you are comparing.

Thanks,
Randy

 

FWIW, light weight crank pulleys on turbo miatas pretty much ALWAYS lead to a premature oil pump failure.

Not trying to imply that they are going to blow up MCSs on contact....just something that was an issue in miata world...

-jac

 

Here are some interesting links from others describing what harmonic balancers do and the effects of removing them.

FYI we have been selling and installing the updated "05" factory balancer from MINI for some time now as an upgrade for the older "02" damper. Our opinion is that the team of engineers at MINI/Tritec decided that a harmonic damper was necessary. A couple years later they made a design change to that part for what we believe were quality and performance reasons. MINI/Tritec have much more R&D budget than any of us in the tuning community will ever have. The gains are simply not worth the risks in our opinion

A few more points, MINI spec's the "05" damper as the replacement part if your old damper disinigrates, the "05" factory damper is balanced, the "05" factory damper weighs less than the old style factory damper making it a nice safe upgrade.

Our position on Dampers is this, If you are looking for an upgrade try the lighter weight newley designed factory unit.

The risks and time taken to do a "PROPER" long term test are not within most of our budgets, it's not worth you destroying your engine.

You can purchase the "05" damper through us or your local dealer, just be sure your getting the updated model.

The best article yet!
http://www.atiperformanceproducts.co.../101/index.htm

Another good one
http://www.atiperformanceproducts.co...mper_dinan.htm

Towards the end of the page
http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/udp/udp...escription.htm

 

Thanks mmMatt for the links.

Now being out of warranty I'm doing it all to my 02 MCS and have read everything I could for the last few years deciding what's first or what’s best for performance on a shoe string budget.

I don't participate much in the “Performance Mods” forum because I've never done any, but I read every word for fact not speculation. To be honest, this one has me truly puzzled because the experts are divided evenly down the middle. I’ll work on the other mods first and get back to this one.


I thank all of you pioneers of MINI performance for the education you’ve given me over the last few years.

 

Matt,

I'd really like to hear about your experience with other cars that have had problems to compare the issue.

fishbulb,

I used to have the Miata, and it is a different set up all together - the pump on the MINI is a driven rotor type, and in a different location. I can see the issue on the Miata. I wonder why it is only on the turbos though? Thanks for the info on that though - good stuff that is a good comparison .




Also, I find it interesting that the "Team" of engineers found it OK to lighten the factory unit and minimize the damper capability in the later cars. Like I stated, it is my opinion that this is a safe modification. That is based on testing I did with several MINIs, not any other brand of vehicle. Take a look at the Cooper -it doesn't even use a vibration damper at all. The S has a longer belt as well, giving better dampening than the Cooper.

We are the only MINI aftermarket manufacturer/supplier/installer that carries the warranty in writing that allows track use, and I certainly don't want to be replacing a gaggle of motors. Just to reiterate, we DO warranty this item.

Hope that helps!
Randy

 

might have been SC's too....I didn't follow the SC miata community as closely as i did the turbo stuff. Probably was an issue with SC cars as well.

I think the only miata folk who used them where the no-holes-barred naturally aspirated guys.

now a lightweight flywheel, that was another story! (a good one!)

-jac

 

are you saying that if I run an Alta pulley purchased from you at $150 or so and my crank bearing goes, or my engine fries because the oil pump starts gyrating, Webb gets to install a new motor in my rig? Now that is product confidence, especially in light of the Minimadness and Dinan reports.

 

The Cooper model crank pulley has a minor rubber strip acting as a damper.

 

Where can we find the info that shows the new (05) style damper has minimized efficency?


Again the harmonic damper links for others that may have missed them:

The best article yet!
http://www.atiperformanceproducts.c...s/101/index.htm

Another good one
http://www.atiperformanceproducts.c...amper_dinan.htm

Towards the end of the page
http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/udp/ud...description.htm

 

hhhmmm, the design engineers themselves going against their very own orginal write-up that naysayers seemed to cite ad nausium as THE authoratative reason for NOT installing a nondamped crank. 'magin dat!

 

Missed them...? 6 WHOLE posts apart?
Gosh thanks for that mmMatt. Maybe you wanna include a map too?

 

Matt,

It seems you missed Randy's original question - what experience, as mentioned by you, and what cars, as mentioned by you, has MINI Madness seen problems with crank pulleys?

Yes, the vibration damper is reduced if the rubber content and distribution has been minimized. Some of the earlier cars had issues with the vibration damper coming apart, so they minimzed the vibration properties by removing the rubber content and making the unit more solid on newer models. Do a torque test - the newer version does not displace as much as the older unit.

The articles that keep coming up have to do with harmonic balancers more than vibration dampers - I do not knock the articles by the above authors, they just may not be completely appropriate.

Brian
Webb Motorsports

 

:impatient :impatient :impatient

 

Brain, maybe Randy missed our question as well..




I regards to the vehicles, we purchased a used M3 a while back that had a lightweight crankshaft pulley put on. After a short time in our hands the bottom end totally let loose costing us thousands of dollars. We later determined that not having a harmonic damper caused the problem. The M3 had 56k miles on it but we were never able to determine how long the damper had been in place. Also being a member of the local BMW club we know one other gentleman who has 3 series that had a similar occurance but was lucky and ONLY had to replace the crankshaft. This happened after 30k or so miles. So yes we are VERY familiar with this problem.

Hope this answers your question


Wow! you have tools that can measure the torsional force upon the crankshaft and the effectiveness of the damper upon it, sounds like you should be in the engine building biz. Regardless of how much the unit weighs, looks or seems to be with a torque test I highly dought the folks at MINI decided to put on a weaker damper. Just a guess

You might want to read the articles again you should also add "crankshaft damper and "harmonic damper" to your list.

 

mmMatt.....

So that's the "Cars/vehicles" you tested

It's kind of funny, as anyone can attest to (if you are a tuner that is)
the M3 engine, (6 cylinders,very long crank) are incredibly sensitive to crank vibrations. So I think your M3 test is a no comparison........Sorry.

peter
Team M7
562-608-8123

 

Who said anything about a test? We never said we tested anything with regard to the harmonic dampner. You might want to go back and actually read the thread, then read the attached links.