Drivetrain Help!! Void Warranty on tensioner/idler
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3rd Gear
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Help!! Void Warranty on tensioner/idler
Guys,
I was on the highway doing 160++km/h at 5th gear, 6400 rpm and I heard a noise coming from the engine when I shifted from 5th gear to 6th. I stopped at the side at the road and checked what went wrong. I found out that the SC belt was left half side. Took the car on the tow-truck to the dealer. This morning the dealer called and told me that I need to replace the belt(obviously!!!), the crank pulley and the belt tensioner. They mentioned that the warranty is void since I'm having the 15% SC pulley and stock size lighten crank pulley so I need to pay for the belt and the tensioner/idler.
The issue here, why cant the tensioner/idler be replaced under warranty? This is a common problem, even on stock car. How can I fight for it?
Thank you...
I was on the highway doing 160++km/h at 5th gear, 6400 rpm and I heard a noise coming from the engine when I shifted from 5th gear to 6th. I stopped at the side at the road and checked what went wrong. I found out that the SC belt was left half side. Took the car on the tow-truck to the dealer. This morning the dealer called and told me that I need to replace the belt(obviously!!!), the crank pulley and the belt tensioner. They mentioned that the warranty is void since I'm having the 15% SC pulley and stock size lighten crank pulley so I need to pay for the belt and the tensioner/idler.
The issue here, why cant the tensioner/idler be replaced under warranty? This is a common problem, even on stock car. How can I fight for it?
Thank you...
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Originally Posted by Detonics
Guys,
I was on the highway doing 160++km/h at 5th gear, 6400 rpm and I heard a noise coming from the engine when I shifted from 5th gear to 6th. I stopped at the side at the road and checked what went wrong. I found out that the SC belt was left half side. Took the car on the tow-truck to the dealer. This morning the dealer called and told me that I need to replace the belt(obviously!!!), the crank pulley and the belt tensioner. They mentioned that the warranty is void since I'm having the 15% SC pulley and stock size lighten crank pulley so I need to pay for the belt and the tensioner/idler.
The issue here, why cant the tensioner/idler be replaced under warranty? This is a common problem, even on stock car. How can I fight for it?
Thank you...
I was on the highway doing 160++km/h at 5th gear, 6400 rpm and I heard a noise coming from the engine when I shifted from 5th gear to 6th. I stopped at the side at the road and checked what went wrong. I found out that the SC belt was left half side. Took the car on the tow-truck to the dealer. This morning the dealer called and told me that I need to replace the belt(obviously!!!), the crank pulley and the belt tensioner. They mentioned that the warranty is void since I'm having the 15% SC pulley and stock size lighten crank pulley so I need to pay for the belt and the tensioner/idler.
The issue here, why cant the tensioner/idler be replaced under warranty? This is a common problem, even on stock car. How can I fight for it?
Thank you...
(1) the tensioner is a known weak spot (no TSBs to date) and,
(2) the JCW pulley and the 15% are within a few tenths of a percent in reduction size.
Good luck.
5th Gear
Joined: Sep 2003
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From: Charlotte, NC
It seems to me that the key to this issue is determining the cause. Did the tensioner go bad on its own causing the other damage? Or did the installation of the aftermarket components cause the belt to become misaligned causing the damage?
How many miles (kilometers?) have you put on since the mods were done?
Being honest with yourself, is there a possibility that the mods were responsible for the failure? If not, I would try to be persistent. Ask them to explain how the failure occurred and to demonstrate how the mods caused the failure. Ask them to explain how this tensioner failure is different than the numerous other tensioner failures. If they can do all that, you probably just need to pay the bill.
The key is to be polite and persistent. Be ready to pay up if the mods caused the problem. Expect them to cover it under warranty if the mods did not cause the problem.
How many miles (kilometers?) have you put on since the mods were done?
Being honest with yourself, is there a possibility that the mods were responsible for the failure? If not, I would try to be persistent. Ask them to explain how the failure occurred and to demonstrate how the mods caused the failure. Ask them to explain how this tensioner failure is different than the numerous other tensioner failures. If they can do all that, you probably just need to pay the bill.
The key is to be polite and persistent. Be ready to pay up if the mods caused the problem. Expect them to cover it under warranty if the mods did not cause the problem.
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Originally Posted by eMINI
It seems to me that the key to this issue is determining the cause. Did the tensioner go bad on its own causing the other damage? Or did the installation of the aftermarket components cause the belt to become misaligned causing the damage?
How many miles (kilometers?) have you put on since the mods were done?
Being honest with yourself, is there a possibility that the mods were responsible for the failure? If not, I would try to be persistent. Ask them to explain how the failure occurred and to demonstrate how the mods caused the failure. Ask them to explain how this tensioner failure is different than the numerous other tensioner failures. If they can do all that, you probably just need to pay the bill.
The key is to be polite and persistent. Be ready to pay up if the mods caused the problem. Expect them to cover it under warranty if the mods did not cause the problem.
How many miles (kilometers?) have you put on since the mods were done?
Being honest with yourself, is there a possibility that the mods were responsible for the failure? If not, I would try to be persistent. Ask them to explain how the failure occurred and to demonstrate how the mods caused the failure. Ask them to explain how this tensioner failure is different than the numerous other tensioner failures. If they can do all that, you probably just need to pay the bill.
The key is to be polite and persistent. Be ready to pay up if the mods caused the problem. Expect them to cover it under warranty if the mods did not cause the problem.
The minute he brings up the weakness of the tensioner they will humor him and search the TSBs. Unfortunately, there is none currently for the tensioner.
Without that, he has no stick in claiming the part is a known problem area. This is a slam dunk for the dealer. There is a small chance they will understand that the 15% pulley and the JCW pulley is close to the same diameter. Even so, I doubt they will do this work under warranty.
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3rd Gear
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Originally Posted by eMINI
Did the tensioner go bad on its own causing the other damage? Or did the installation of the aftermarket components cause the belt to become misaligned causing the damage?
How many miles (kilometers?) have you put on since the mods were done?
How many miles (kilometers?) have you put on since the mods were done?
i had about 2K km( i cant remember exactly) since the crank pulley mod. Had the SC pulley changed 10K km ago.
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3rd Gear
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Bad tensioner.. the tensioner might cause the belt to snap, or maybe the crank pullley. But I had a noise and the tensioner was moving back and forth about 1 1/2 month ago, very obvious movement. The tensioner was not working properly I guess, causing the problem. Are you saying it's due to the crank pulley?
As onasled said - what was the failure mode (aka, what broke)? If tensioner damper, could that be caused by the undamped crank pulley? Per the Magnussen-Moss act the dealer would have to prove it, but it's something to look at.
Coordinator :: Gulf Coast & Panhandle MINIs
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From: In the Tube
Originally Posted by Detonics
The issue here, why cant the tensioner/idler be replaced under warranty? This is a common problem, even on stock car. How can I fight for it?
This is not a common problem with stock MINIs and they have every right to refuse warranty service. Mod you’re MINI at your own expense.
6th Gear
Joined: Feb 2005
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From: Florida
You most certainly can. The law states they have to prove the aftermarket parts caused the failure, pure and simple.
Sndwave is just grumpy because he can't mod his car to stay 'legal' and drive around parking lots with cones in them, so he likes to come down on us with mods. Don't worry about him.
Sndwave is just grumpy because he can't mod his car to stay 'legal' and drive around parking lots with cones in them, so he likes to come down on us with mods. Don't worry about him.
6th Gear
Joined: Jul 2004
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Originally Posted by Skiploder
With all due respect, how do you prove that the tensioner failed on its own? How do you prove that the reduced pulley diameter led to the failure?
The minute he brings up the weakness of the tensioner they will humor him and search the TSBs. Unfortunately, there is none currently for the tensioner.
Without that, he has no stick in claiming the part is a known problem area. This is a slam dunk for the dealer. There is a small chance they will understand that the 15% pulley and the JCW pulley is close to the same diameter. Even so, I doubt they will do this work under warranty.
The minute he brings up the weakness of the tensioner they will humor him and search the TSBs. Unfortunately, there is none currently for the tensioner.
Without that, he has no stick in claiming the part is a known problem area. This is a slam dunk for the dealer. There is a small chance they will understand that the 15% pulley and the JCW pulley is close to the same diameter. Even so, I doubt they will do this work under warranty.
5th Gear
Joined: Sep 2003
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From: Charlotte, NC
I'm advocating an open and honest discussion with the SA about the cause of the failure. In the event that the mod caused the failure, I'd pay for the repair. If the part faliure was not the result of the mod, I'd expect the warranty to cover the cost. I'm not saying I'm looking forward to such a discussion, but I believe it's usually possible to work things out without resorting to legal actions. Then again, I'm fortunate to have SA's who know which end is up and are genuine enthusiasts, not just shills for BMW/MINI.
In the end, the answer is: "It depends." Depends on the cause, depends on the dealer, depends on the customer, it depends. Something sndwave said earlier is true, we do mod at our own risk. However, as kaelaria pointed out, the dealer does have an obligation to prove the mod caused the failure before they can deny the warranty claim.
Fortunately, this is not likely an especially expensive repair, so it may not be a big deal if the warranty doesn't cover it. But the principle is the same, the mod must be proven to cause the failure for the dealer to deny the claim.
In the end, the answer is: "It depends." Depends on the cause, depends on the dealer, depends on the customer, it depends. Something sndwave said earlier is true, we do mod at our own risk. However, as kaelaria pointed out, the dealer does have an obligation to prove the mod caused the failure before they can deny the warranty claim.
Fortunately, this is not likely an especially expensive repair, so it may not be a big deal if the warranty doesn't cover it. But the principle is the same, the mod must be proven to cause the failure for the dealer to deny the claim.
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Originally Posted by eMINI
I'm advocating an open and honest discussion with the SA about the cause of the failure. In the event that the mod caused the failure, I'd pay for the repair. If the part faliure was not the result of the mod, I'd expect the warranty to cover the cost. I'm not saying I'm looking forward to such a discussion, but I believe it's usually possible to work things out without resorting to legal actions. Then again, I'm fortunate to have SA's who know which end is up and are genuine enthusiasts, not just shills for BMW/MINI.
In the end, the answer is: "It depends." Depends on the cause, depends on the dealer, depends on the customer, it depends. Something sndwave said earlier is true, we do mod at our own risk. However, as kaelaria pointed out, the dealer does have an obligation to prove the mod caused the failure before they can deny the warranty claim.
eMINI: Out of curiosity, have you had your dealer make a repair to your car while it was modded? Something along an issue with the pulley, supercharger, etc?
If so, did he abide by the MM Act? If not, what makes you think he will?
Fortunately, this is not likely an especially expensive repair, so it may not be a big deal if the warranty doesn't cover it. But the principle is the same, the mod must be proven to cause the failure for the dealer to deny the claim.
In the end, the answer is: "It depends." Depends on the cause, depends on the dealer, depends on the customer, it depends. Something sndwave said earlier is true, we do mod at our own risk. However, as kaelaria pointed out, the dealer does have an obligation to prove the mod caused the failure before they can deny the warranty claim.
eMINI: Out of curiosity, have you had your dealer make a repair to your car while it was modded? Something along an issue with the pulley, supercharger, etc?
If so, did he abide by the MM Act? If not, what makes you think he will?
Fortunately, this is not likely an especially expensive repair, so it may not be a big deal if the warranty doesn't cover it. But the principle is the same, the mod must be proven to cause the failure for the dealer to deny the claim.
My experience is that at this point BMW will inform the dealer he will not be reimbursed for the repair. What the dealer does at that point is up to him. Let's hope for Detonic's sake they are a charitable group.
As for filing a claim under the MM Act - best of luck. It's a time consuming process and in the meantime (with his issue) his Mini is sidelined. Odds are that he will have to pay either the dealer or a mechanic to make the repair and file a claim at a later date if he wants to drive his Mini any time soon.
eMini:
Have you had a chance to put your dealer to the test with your mods yet? If not, what makes you think they'll abide by the MM Act?
My dealer was super cool with mine until they had to get BMW to reimburse them for repairs. Once BMW told them no dinero, they stopped.
5th Gear
Joined: Jun 2003
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From: Morrisville, NC
Well, it would be hard to prove either way whether the modifications put any additional stress on the tensioner. The dealer might argue that it might have been unloaded incorrectly or mishandled during removal. It is probably BS but this is probably going to be a hard one to win.
There are tensioners out there with a better design that are not that much $$. Search here or MINI2.
There are tensioners out there with a better design that are not that much $$. Search here or MINI2.
2nd Gear
Joined: Sep 2003
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While I'm with you in spirit, I don't think you have a chance in he** on this one. After some driving at high revs in warm weather (with a 15% pulley), my tensioner assembly cracked and fell into and ruined my stock crank pulley. I didn't even think to bring it to a dealer - they won't even work on brakes that have non-stock brake pads.
In my opinion, you should just bite the bullet, pay for a new tensioner assembly (only about $100), have whoever installed your mods install it, and save the lawsuits for the numerous other times the dealers wrongfully refuse warranty service on repairs that truly have nothing to do with the mods that were made.
In my opinion, you should just bite the bullet, pay for a new tensioner assembly (only about $100), have whoever installed your mods install it, and save the lawsuits for the numerous other times the dealers wrongfully refuse warranty service on repairs that truly have nothing to do with the mods that were made.
Coordinator :: Gulf Coast & Panhandle MINIs
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From: In the Tube
Originally Posted by kaelaria
You most certainly can. The law states they have to prove the aftermarket parts caused the failure, pure and simple.
Sndwave is just grumpy because he can't mod his car to stay 'legal' and drive around parking lots with cones in them, so he likes to come down on us with mods. Don't worry about him.
Sndwave is just grumpy because he can't mod his car to stay 'legal' and drive around parking lots with cones in them, so he likes to come down on us with mods. Don't worry about him.
Fight it, take it to court, pay big bucks and hire kealaria as your lawyer. I'm sure if you don't win he'll give you the keys to his MINI with all its muth power.
6th Gear
Joined: May 2005
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Originally Posted by Detonics
Guys,
The issue here, why cant the tensioner/idler be replaced under warranty? This is a common problem, even on stock car. How can I fight for it?
Thank you...
The issue here, why cant the tensioner/idler be replaced under warranty? This is a common problem, even on stock car. How can I fight for it?
Thank you...
Maybe you can go to court together ...
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Joined: Aug 2004
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Originally Posted by chows4us
Call this guy https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...ad.php?t=49580
Maybe you can go to court together ...
Maybe you can go to court together ...
Let me recap:
Detonics - Aftermarket Pulley = Denial of tensioner warranty (part of assembly)
Skiploder - Aftermarket Pulley = Denial of Electrical warranty.
My case is a little easier to make..........