After numerous searches and much reading, I am down to choosing one of these three tires: Toyo T1S, Michelin Pilot Sport or Bridgestone S03. All of them seem to be regarded as excellent performance tires with perhaps the S03 consistently getting the nod as the best overall choice among the three.

But to complicate matters, the S03 weighs a lot more than the other two and, yes, it does cost more. I can talk myself into paying more but the additional weight is bothering me.

If I disqualify the S03 because of weight, I'm then reduced to tossing a coin to choose between the other two, although the Michelin name might sway me a little.

Any up to the minute advice from those who have dealt with this dilemma will be appreciated.

TIA!

(fyi... I have an MCS with the 16" stock V-spokes. I'm only interested in dry weather handling. I've decided on 205/50. I won't be autocrossing.)

 

[QUOTE=911Fan]After numerous searches and much reading, I am down to choosing one of these three tires: Toyo T1S, Michelin Pilot Sport or Bridgestone S03. All of them seem to be regarded as excellent performance tires with perhaps the S03 consistently getting the nod as the best overall choice among the three.

I can't give advice because I have not had the Michelins but I like the T1-s and will put them on again when these are worn out

 

I used the Michelins on the M3. They are truly a great tire. Haven't used that Toyo, but the experiences I had with RA-1's would lead me to expect great performance. If I had to bet, I'd say the Toyos will last a little longer.

 

I have a set of the micheline pilots on my Audi TT, and a set of Toyo T-1's on my MCS. Both are excellent tires, for te MCS, I personally would go with the T-1's.

 

Honestly, for a street car it's not going to matter much.

My vote would be for the S03 for best dry performance regardless of weight. I'd also consider the GS-D3. Very comparable perforance at a typically lower price.

I prefer to buy through tirerack which rules out the toyo.

 

I'm running the Goodyear GS-D3's and they are very nice in the dry and amazing in the rain. I'd suggest you speak with Alex@TireRack.com as well. You can't get Toyo's from them, but he's very knowledgable about your other choices.

 

Thanks for the comments and suggestions. I'm exploring the new (to me) options which have been mentioned, although I'm starting to firm up on the lighter-is-better theme.

btw, for being such a ubiquitous name on Internet car sites, Tire Rack's own website is annoyingly hard to use! A simple text search function (as in tire name/designation) would really be helpful...

 

I've experienced the same thing. Very easy if you want to plug in a car and have it make recommendations. Not so good at enabling freeform searches. Call Alex at ext 294.

 

If you buy 4 S-03's between 4/7 and 5/7, Bridgestone has a $100.00 rebate.

 

I would go with the Pilot or the S03's Toyo's are more like Nitto's dress-up tires imho...if considering T1's I'd get something like ES100's.

I've had much success with Pilots, S03's, and the GS-D3's.
My favorite is S03's, but they are heavy and a little too nimble for me
on this car.

GS-D3's on the MINI works best imho for street... comfy, stable, and
lighter weight than the S03's. :smile:

 

Here's a good thread talking about a recent test done by Super Street (yea... I know) with, what appears to be, the help of Tire Rack. The S03 is noticably absent, but it's worth a look nonetheless.

http://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1185610

 

Thanks for the link. I've ruled out the S03s now but it would have been interesting to see how they compared with the others in those tests. They seem to be the favorite tires on NAM. That's a bit surprising considering there's so much awareness of unsprung weight around here...

 

911Fan,
When it comes to performance tires you have to consider "ALL" of the variables not just one such as weight. If two tires are equal on the track using the same test car on the same track under the same conditions then the one that is lighter or the one that lasts longer due to tread compound would be at an advantage.

In the case of the S-03 it is simply a solid performer and though it is about the heaviest tire you could buy in a given size it does so well for street and performance use that it makes up for that extra weight and extra price. If you can get it from tire rack for $100 off due to that promotion then I would highly recommend it.

The Toyo is also good and will work fine for everyday use. It's advantage is light weight compared to the others which is a plus only when you are accelerating or braking. At a constant speed it is not a factor and in dry or wet conditions the tread pattern and rubber compound makes more difference.

The Goodyear eagle F1 GS-D3 is also a good choice, slightly lower priced than the S-03 but solid performer in wet or dry. Good test results at tirerack.com.

Here are a few choices in 205/50-16 for street use.
Max Performance summer tires:
Bridgestone Potenza S-03 $156 each 220 treadwear, 24 pounds W rated
Goodyear Eagle F1 GS-D3 $127 each 280 treadwear, 22 pounds Y rated
Michelin Pilot Sport $156 each 220 treadwear, 20 pounds Y rated


Ultra High Performance summer tires:
Bridgestone Potenza RE750 $111 each 340 treadwear, 22 pounds W rated
BFG g-Force T/A KDW2 $117 each 300 treadwear, 22 pounds W rated
Yokohama AVS ES100 $81 each 280 treadwear, 21.5 pounds W rated
Avon Tech M500 $87 each 280 treadwear, 21 pounds W rated
Fuzion ZRi $73 each 320 treadwear, 20 pounds W rated
Toyo Proxes T1S $102 each 280 treadwear, 19.4 pounds W rated


Ultra High Performance All season tires:
Pirelli PZero Nero M&S $101 closeout, 400 treadwear, 22 pounds W rated
Toyo Proxes 4 $78 each 300 treadwear, 20.5 pounds V rated
Kumho Ecsta ASX $86 each 420 treadwear, 20 pounds W rated
Falken Ziex ZE-512 $70 each 360 treadwear, 19.4 pounds V rated


So how do you sort these all out?

Max Performance tires cost the most, wear the fastest, give the highest levels of street performance and comfort in dry and sometimes even in wet conditions. Overall the Eagle GS-D1 or S-03 are leaders. The special on the S-03 now is enticing.

Ultra High Perf Summer tires- cost much less, wear longer, gives solid levels of performance balanced with good comfort and decent dry and wet handling. Overall the Avon Tech M500 has the best balance at a very reasonable price- one of my favorites.

Ultra High Perf All season tires- reasonably priced, wears much longer, good performance and good dry and wet traction or in light snow. Common choices for MINI owners are Toyo Proxes 4 and Falken ZE-512 for their value and balanced performance while the Pirelli PZero Nero is a very high quality tire value at that closeout price.

Finally (I got a headache already!), you missed the fish that got away-
Not all good tire choices for the X-lytes come in 205/50-16. One great example is the Avon Tech M550 A/S for $78 each 360 treadwear 23 pounds and perfect fit for the X-lyte at the stock tire diameter. The M550 is an Ultra HP all season tire (reasonable price, wears longer than the M500, good street performance/comfort).

Choices choices choices. Let your budget decide.

 

Rule out the Bridgestone SO3 for a Mini. It's the wrong tyre for the car. The SO3 is designed for a heavy rear wheel drive car. Not a good choice for a fairly light weight front wheel drive car of any make.

The Michelin's are wonderful tyres, but maybe a little on the high side, price wise. It's your money however.

The best tyres right now are the Goodyear Eagle F1 GS-D3 and the Pirelli P-Zero Rosso. The Eagle is $127.00 a tyre and the Pirelli is on special for $89.00. This is for 205/50-16 tyre size.

Oilman

 

I don't yet have a good basis for comparison, but I can absolutely affirm that the GS-D3 is very strong. After a lot of study, I chose it over the others being considered here. And, I've been thrilled with the choice. The dry handling is top-notch and the wet handling is amazing. For the price, it can't be beat. When I need tires again, I'll probably go with the Michelin PS2 or maybe the BF Goodrich KDW-2. That's not because I think they're better. Rather, I believe in trying things myself, so I'll go with something else in an attempt to find what best meets my needs. My priorities are: performance, wear & price, in that order.

<begin rant><end rant>

Truth be told, you can't go wrong with any of these tires. Pick the tire that best seems to meet your needs and enjoy it frequently.:smile:

 

No need to rant. I think your right about the cost differences.

On my previous Mini-Cooper I ditched the run flats as soon as I bought the car and installed the Goodyear Eagle F1's. They were on back order for 4 months. It was worth the wait. Great tyre in the rain, wonderful in the dry. The sidewalls are a bit on the soft side so the steering inputs took a bit of a hit, but compared to a Run Flat tyre sidewall, anything else is soft.

For my new Mini-Cooper S I've decided to go with the Pirelli P-Zero Rosso. I was curious. If I really hate the Pirelli's, I still have the Goodyears and I can switch back. Well, at 26,000 miles on them there really isn't anything to switch back to. At least I don't have to but more tyres for a while.

Good Luck with the Goodyear Eagles. Let us know what you think.

Oilman

 

What facts or statement by Bridgestone do you base this statement on?

Not saying I don't believe you... wait, yes I am.

 

What size replacement tire fits the OEM 16" wheel besides 195/55/16? Will 205/50/16 work?


Thanks in advance.

By the way, I'm also looking at the Goodyear Eagle F1 GS-D3.

 

I saw a j-video clip where Bridgestone and Doridori introduced
the tire back years ago to the Japanese lux euro sedan market.

Bridgestone designed the S03's with the help of Doridori of
BestMotoring (one of the top respected pro-drivers in Japan).
They designed the tire to be used on luxury Euro-sedans driven
on Japanese roads. It is considered a comfortable all weather
'higher' performance tire (not all season) in Japan.

The tires are quite capable on FF cars...just a bit too heavy
imho for a small 4 banger like the MINI. They work fine on my
G35C...

 

What will going from the stock Goodyear Rsa's to the Goodyear F1 Gs D3's do for the ride, handling, and noise? I'm not really impressed with the whole idea of runflat, you might as well just wrap rubber around the rim.

 

I heard a few months ago or so that the Toyo T1S was being redone, and a new model of the T1S was coming out, which was to be a big improvement, but the cost of the new tire was very big -- one of the most expensive tires now. But we don't know what the weight will be for the new tire, probably much heavier. Oh well. You can't have some of the best performance without adding weight. Probably they will increase the sidewall stiffness to aid handling, but that comes at a price, as stiff sidewalls are heavy.

 

My experince with RSA's was brief (<100 miles), but I'm quite pleased with the GSD3's (215/45/17). Ride is better. Handling is WAY better. And they're quiet. Don't wait, do it now.

 

How much better is the ride? I was also looking at the Falkin 512's just because the ride should be better with them. I can't make up my mind.

My only real complaint is when cornering around something like a cloverleaf, if it isn't smooth the car hops to the outside. For daily driving the car set up needs to be a bit softer then what would be used on a track, especially living in Minnesota where we pay the highest taxes in the entire country yet still seem to have the worst roads.

 

IMO the ride is substantially better. As for the Falken 512's I can't imagine that they'll perform like the GSD3's, but if ride is more important they may be a good choice. I have to confess that ride quality is not my highest priority.

One thing I can suggest when it comes to optimizing ride while retaining performance is to go with smaller diameter wheels and taller sidewalls on serious perfromance tires. For example, an only-OK performance tire with a 40 series aspect ratio on a 17" wheel will niether perform as well or ride as well as a 50 series GSD3 or S-03 on a 16" wheel. Bigger ain't always better. And, you don't get what you don't pay for.

 

I thought of that also but didn't really want to deal with getting new rims. After thinking about it some more I think your right. What size 16" tire is equivilant to the 205/45/17 tire? And what is the stock offset of the rims. I want to keep all the dimesions the same.

I probably should have started a new thread on this, sorry to hijack.