Here's my hypothetical plan - it's still only getting to about 40 degrees in Chicago, on the nicer days, so I have some time to get it right :smile: :

1) wash with Dawn, dry with my fab new Sonus waffleweave towels from Autopia.

2) clay. use the ZainoBros "car wash" solution or equivalent, for lube.

3) wash again, this time with the ZainoBros "car wash" solution (which will be right handy since I just lubed my clay job with it) - dry with some more of those fab waffleweaves.

4) Follow the Zaino Brick Road (apply polish per instructions provided with their kit)

5) Open a bottle of some fine adult beverage, step back and admire my hard work .

6) Repeat step 5 until summoned for supper.

OK Guru, if that's how it has to be, then I have a quation...

Suppose I have some micro-marring (the kind of teensy scratches you can see when the light's "just right" - I believe I caused this using cheapo microfiber towels to wipe off Quick Detailing Spray or buff off Scratch-X) that I'd like to treat with an orbital buffer and some Sonus Restore, at some point in the process....

Question is where in the sequence would one do that Sonus/buffer treatment? Won't the Dawn wash work its wax-removing magic on all my hard work, if I fix these before my first step? Seems like I want to take care of them either FIRST, or right before "Zaino, Zaino, Zaino" ??

Lunch Time, I'll be right back,
Tatt

 

You could just use Zaino Z5 for a coat or two before you move on to the Z2. How many layers of the Zaino polish are you putting down?

 

It has been a year since I washed with Dawn and claybarred. There are a couple of layers of Z5, four or five of Z2 with ZFX.......and one of Z6 in between each. Is it time to start over from scratch?

 

TY for suggestion, indimini - I was wonderin' if Z2 might be suitable . Why does it seem to me (newest, least knowledgeable member of the Cult of Zaino) that you would want everything as perfect as possible though (ie address the scratchies first), before you seal the whole mess up? I feel like the 4 year old kid who answers everything with "Why?" LOL. Not sure at this point how many layers will do but I wouldn't be averse to applying "several" if I think there'll be a benefit.

I am curious too, which is more aggressive, the Sonus Restore or Z5?

Thanks again,
Tatt

 

Sonus 'Restore' is WAY MORE than Z5. From the description below, 'Restore' is very near (if not well into) the rubbing compound category... very abrasive. Zaino Z5 has NO Abrasives in it... it just has some additional fillers that attempt to smooth in the valleys of small scratches to make them less noticeable. 'Restore' is going to physically remove material from your car to reduce the effect of the scratches.

Sonus makes an entire line of compounding and polishing products. I copied and pasted this from the autopia website: (http://www.autopia-carcare.com/sfx.html)




----------------------
--------------------

The KEY to compounding/polishing is to use the LEAST abrasive product that you can to get the job done. You want to just grind away enough material (and you are grinding away material with these) to round off the edges of the micro-marring or make the surface of your clearcoat level again. From the tiny little micro-marring (swirlmarks) scratches you describe above, the 'Restore' is overkill. I'd start with the 'Enhance' product and only go to the 'Restore' only if you don't get the results you need

Here would be my recommended procedure:

1. Wash well with auto shampoo
2. Clay Bar
3. Use Sonus 'Enhance' with Porter Cable Dual-Action Polisher (PCDA)
4. Use Sonus 'Final Finish' with PCDA
5. Dawn wash (probably not necessary, but it only takes a few minutes)
6. A couple of coats of Zaino Z5 (as per Zaino instructions
7. At least 2 coats of Zaino Z2 (as per Zaino instructions)

If, after step 3, you still see the swirl marks and scratches, you may want to use 'Restore' and then start again at step 3, redoing the 'Enhance' work.

I don't go deep into compounding, but I have posted my entire detailing process here (about 10 pages long): https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...ad.php?t=37303

 

^^ that is a very good question - I'll wait for guru to furnish wisdom, but I bet they start out with "It depends...".

Remember, at the same time as you're layering your protection on, sinister forces are constantly at work, removing it (albeit slowly). So you might not be as "built up" as you imagine, and even if you are, it may not be bad (me don't know).

The tightwad in me (genetics are at fault) is going to guess that if you asked Brother Zaino, he would suggest that it can't HURT to "start over" since you'd obviously use their stuff up (and need to buy more) quicker .

Then there's the Enjoyment Factor - like mowing the lawn, it was FUN for the first dozen or so times, and THEN it somehow morphs into a chore...
I am content spending the (occasional) entire Saturday taking care of the vehicle, so far... It's my own twisted escapism. Not everyone feels the same way, I'm sure.

See how good I am at being absolutely no help at ALL?
Tatt

 

Just noticed that you mentioned an "Orbital Buffer" in the original post. Unless everything is perfect (ie: you car is perfectly clean, you know what you are doing with the buffer, your buffing wheel is brand spanking new and clean, the phase of the moon is just so) you may wind up doing MUCH MORE DAMMAGE with the buffer than you did with your microfibers and QD.

I would either spring for the PCDA ($200 for the PCDA and Sonus foam pads at autopia) or do it by hand.

Before you break down and spend the cash, you may want to do a test run of a 2 coats of Z5 to see if they take care of the problem. If the problem doesn't go away with 2 coats of Z5, the Z5 isn't going to cut it and you will have to polish/compound to a good solution.

Expect the polishing/compounding steps to take a while. I recently restored the paint on my '97 Nissan Altima (daily driver). It took about 12 hours all together (spread over several weekends) to compound and polish the finish smooth... not counting the layers of Zaino that followed.

Good luck!

 

After 2.5 years Zainoing is fun until I'm 75% through the process. It's the 25% that has me hoping for......."do whatever the heck you want, you really can't go wrong either way." But the 75% still wants to hear the DEEPER TRUTH of the collective minds of the detailing guru's.

 

TY AG, TY... As soon as I saw it in your post, I remembered reading it many times, "no abrasives in Zaino products"... What I should have asked about, for relative "aggressiveness" was the Sonus Restore vs. Scratch-X.

You guys have long ago put the mantra in my head about going from the least to the most aggressive stuff, so no worries there.

Point(s) taken about PCDA being preferable to OB! I am a by-hand guy mostly (well at least concerning the car ) anyhow. There's clearly more experimentation I need to do (eyeing wife's '02 Caravan...).

edit: It might be precisely because I've been rubbing on the swirlmarks "by hand" (no power tool used) that I haven't already made a complete disaster of it!

Watch out I just had an epiphany! I have been mis-using (and dissing) Scratch-X for a long time. It's NOT a "filler upper" it's a "grinder downer" .

Cripes Igor, I have to get back in the lab! errrr, garage!

This is great, all the info, and I really appreciate it,
Tatt

 

Some swirl-mark removers do have fillers in them (like the Z5). 3M makes a swirl-mark remover in 2 versions (for light and dark colored cars) that have fillers and abrasives in them. You should wax or seal after wiping off the excess to prolong the effect of the fillers. If you don't, they are gone with the next wash.

I don't know if Scratch-X has fillers or not. I like it for touch-ups, but I'd stick with the Sonus products (or the 3M line that I describe in the detailing write-up linked above) for an all-over grinding session. Were I to do the work on my Altima again, I would be very tempted to buy that Sonus trio, above.

 

AgRanger, I am severely GLAD that I caught you while you have some time - thanks for helping out, don't quit.

I printed your write-up many weeks ago, you'll be gratified to know :smile:. It's terrific, a Keeper. I think I'll be filling in some gaps (the kinder, gentler Sonus stuff) in my supplies, shortly. It is HARD to "just leave it the heck ALONE" though.

 

I'm even trying hard not to laugh, but every time I think of the phrase........ severely glad........the chuckles just start spilling out of me. Thanks.

 

Always glad to help!

I just had more Zaino fun this weekend... I gave my Altima ('97 - a daily driver) and my Wife's 1 year old Nissan Murano (Metallic blue) a good wash on Saturday. I popped on a quick coat of Zaino to refresh the finish a bit... It had been 4 months for my car and 6 months for the wife's. Her dark blue metallic is STUNNING after a fresh coat of Z2. Be sure to do the windows... Z2 is excellent for the functioning of the wipers and gives your glass a beautiful shine. I Z2 anything that isn't porous plastic.

 

Another quation: How long to go on just the factory finish (well, I have hand washed the MINI with some Gold Class that I had laying around, a few (zillion) times since January 10th ... It still looks really nice, after a shampoo.

...but a month from now it will finally be warm enough outside to really "do this thing". Am I jumping the gun a bit (car's 10 weeks old)?

Anyone ever bring their car home from the dealer's, and proceed to Dawn/clay/Zaino it immediately?

Inquiring minds want to know,
Tatt

 

Yes, well within two weeks of delivery. I got the car Dec 11th and used my XMas present (Zaino) the holiday weekend. I wanted to make sure the car was protected before the nasty winter weather. I just applied two new coats of Zaino this weekend. I'm thinking 2 coats every 3 months is about right.

 

Do it as soon as you can.

At one point in our far, far distant past (1980s and earlier), automotive factory finishes needed to be left unsealed for a good while until they cured. In our modern, new-fangled times, this is no longer a necessity as the paint is baked on at the factory.

If you get a bit of body work done at a local shop, they may suggest that you don't seal or wax for a few months. They know what type of process they used and I would take their suggestion.

Your dealer may have given you a quick coat of high-gloss wax (and some dealer installed swirl marks... free of charge) before you picked up the car, so you probabaly have some protection. I would Dawn wash, clay and Zaino the car thoroughly as soon as you can get yourself out of the driver's seat long enough to do it.

 

Kewl~

Yep, a co-worker with a new hood (it's a Honda so it aint a bonnet), received care instructions to that effect, and no car wash either!... She's hatin' it, LOL

Yep again, @ "dealer installed Free Swirl Mark option" ... I may be overly cynical, but I've even speculated that the interior lighting at the dealership is very carefully chosen, to NOT show some of the "prep guy's" faux pas! Grrrrr! Next time around, I will be a much better inspector, at delivery time.

Tatt

 

I specifically ask for the car not to be detailed. If they need to wash it (for a better inspection), OK... but NOTHING MORE THAN THAT.

The thought of the bucket of water that has been used for the past 10 cars and the synthetic sponge that has been dropped on the ground repeadetly makes my stomach churn...

 

Oh, just the thought!

I did a Detailing Tips and Tricks Seminar for my local Porsche club at one of the local Porsche/Audi dealerships. Oh my GAWD! The crap they were using on $100K Porsches was frightening. We were in the wash bay with 50 people showing them how to wash a car and then we discovered filthy mitts lying in pools of water and grit by the drains. They looked like they were twenty years old. Old towels and chamois' looked like hand-me-downs from my grandfater were lying around all filthy. Jars of no-name wax were lying open with sawdust-like grit and dirt in them. People were just amazed. I can guarantee you not one person there will EVER get his car serviced or purchased and get it cleaned there or at another dealer again. At the end of the day I "awarded" the dealer some free mitts and towels. The crowd cheered wildly but I am not sure the dealership manager really knew what was going on. Sad!

Right now they have a new Carrera GT in the showroom. Scary, huh!

 

Yo, Brad! Please enlighten us. Does Zaino need to be Dawned down to the paint surface periodically......or not?

 

No. The only thing you need to do is use ZFX (preferred) or Z1 to be sure you have a good bond to the previous top layer.

And I always suggest a light claying before applying any new layers to be assured of the slickest surface possible.

 

Thanks, Brad. You made my day!

 

PS: Dawn won't remove Zaino. It removes WAXES because of it's detergents and alkaline nature. Zaino is a polymer sealant and is chemically bonded to the paintwork. You will need something with solvents and a bit of abrasive (paintwork cleanser or polish / compound) to make Zaino give up the ghost...

 

So you only have to use Dawn once? I use Zaino on all my cars, and I always have started out with Dawn, then did the whole routine (once a year), then did the 'touch-up' washes as needed....

I guess I should be waxing more!

 

Scratch-X didn't get a fair shake -

For my touch-ups I had been Ever-So-Lightly smearing on Scratch-X by hand, allowing it to dry for a good long time, then buffing it off, only to find my "scratches" still there, thumbing their ugly noses at me...

Reason for purchasing Sonus Restore (in my ignorance) was to try something different/stronger/better. Heck, I saw a good recommendation for it elsewhere on NAM... Words to the effect of "... Scratch-X is OK, but I prefer Sonus Restore". That person gets major cookies from Tatt, TY.

Well, now that I have figured out how to properly USE the stuff ...

One by-hand application of Sonus Restore, which I took a few minutes while applying it, and "worked it" a bit (so it can actually DO what it's formulated to DO ), took care of bizness Quite Nicely!

In hindsight, it is SO "common sense" that you'd want to put it on like this (Scratch-X too) - however, I'm sure I'm not the only rookie that's squeamish about doing ANYTHING to their MINI "forcefully".

What I Found Out:
Rule #1 is It Don't Take Much to Do the Job. I found that, by the time I was satisfied with the amount of rubbing I had done when first applying it, most of the "clean up" was already done - there was very little "excess" product in the area on the fender I was working. You'll only end up creating extra work, wasting ($$) product, with dirtier polishing/buffing towels, and little bits of dried stuff all over. A little really does go a long way.

Rule #2 is Save Yourself Frustration, by NOT trying to substitute "other" tools. This was very hard for me to grasp (the direct result of a lifetime of using butter knives for screwdrivers, or whatever handy rock is lying around, for a hammer, etc ). The work is cheaper, faster, more satisfying (since it actually WORKS) if you can WAIT until you get foam applicators or applicator pads, and GOOD polishing/buffing towels... It's been said in Detailing 101 Forum so many times, yet I STILL had to figure this one out for myself.

Me a happy camper, because NOW I can "touch up" all the other places, with some degree of confidence that I WILL get results, and WON'T butcher the paint.

Now if I can get some (re)assurance that Clay/Zaino treatment will help eliminate what look like "smudges" on my bonnet near the washer jets... They don't rub off with QD, that's for sure. They're not brown or black, or even gray - and, like the micro-marring, you can only see them when the light's just right.

Thanks again all, I like sharing Good News,
Tatt