Im wondering if my car had been tuned at some point in it's life prior to my ownership.. I will list my mods below but I've had a reputable tuner tell me it's impossible my car is making 22psi ( I can hit 25 with an NM module).. and even after I told him my mods and sent the video showing, he still questioned me. So that makes me really hesitant to tune with him because I almost feel like he's setting the stage for if I'm not satisfied with his tune because the an NM module adds more than his tune might.. I was outright told tuning to 25psi is out the question, so why would I go custom tune for 1000$ then if I'm not even going to get as much power as I can from an nm module ? I get not tuning am S engine to 25psi but a jcw engine especially with my mods is safe to 25psi..
I could see my car having a mild tune and then i install the nm module on ontop of the tune then it makes it into an aggressive af tune maybe???
My car absolutely ran like a freight train with an NM module.
I DO have my wastegate set very aggressive because of my big turbo , oversized intake and aftermarket intake manifold, there's NO lag and I also NEVER have gone into limp mode or thrown a cel for any boost/tmap related codes.. the ONLY cel I have is p0141. My afr at full boost 7k rpm is 12.5 so not the best but definitely not dangerously lean..

MODIFICATIONS :
Ported cylinder head
tubular exhaust manifold
Billet 11x blade 48mm k04 turbo w/ turbo blanky and braided steel feed line
nvida resonated exhaust
Catless antiheap wrapped 2.5in downpipe
aluminum side feed intake manifold ( builtin velocity stacks on every runner ! )
Big intake with 6in velocity stack
Upgraded intercooler piping EVEN the plastic tmap pipe and alta intercooler
dinan ignition coils and BRISK Silver 2x step colder plugs
turbosmart wastegate
Forge bov and stiff spring ( can't tell colors )
NM module
aluminum valvecover aluminum coolant reservoir aluminum Tstat housing, aluminum waterpump and aluminum waterpipe
auxiliary oil cooler ( fitted behind the grill )
Gas i run is about 95oct. 93oct + added octane booster

 

Anybody because today with my nm module set to high , my car hit 26.5.. how ?? Isn't boost cut at 25psi ???

 

BTW when I got the car it only had alta intercooler, intake and cat back exhaust. I SWEAR it was making only like 15psi on the oem jcw turbo and stuff then.. but I still wonder if it was custom tuned because my boost ceiling is so high.
I DO have a cel on for my Catless dp because someone mentioned if it's tuned it won't throw that cel but that's incorrect because it had stock downpipe so ofcourse they wouldn't have tuned it asif it had a catless dp and cause it to flunk emissions doing so..

 

I'm in for following the discussion...

I would think the combination of all your mods is the reason for the high boost numbers. Have you tried disconnecting the NM module and running around? What boost numbers are you getting without it connected? I would have expected 16-ish on stock JCW, with maybe peaks at 18psi. Add everything you have except the big turbo, and boost pressure (in theory) should be roughly the same. Add the big turbo, and I might expect a few more psi up top under load. Then, add the NM module and a few more psi in the mix.

I'm not 100% sure what manipulation the NM module is doing, but it plugs into the boost sensors, correct? If so, it is possibly manipulating the boost signals to trick the DME into thinking the actual boost is lower than it really is. Running your boost gauge direct to the manifold will give you true boost readings. Do you have a method of monitoring the DME boost values through the OBD port? I'd be willing to bet the DME is seeing ~20-22 psi through the NM module...

 

the video I uploaded were WITHOUT the nm module And WITHOUT a handful of other upgrades. I was still hitting almost 22psi ON COMPLETELY stock ecu ( what I think is atleast).
Thats why ive msdevthis thread because im kinda dumbfounded over this.. 22 psi on stock tune ??? I mean sure ive dobe upgrades but i wouldn't have thought the boost would be THIS high. I mean lol I definitely arnt complaining actually the exact opposite, I'm pumped because on my last build no MATTER WHAT I and a VERY reputable tuner did , the car wouldn't make over 20.5 psi. I had almost the same build but an n14 jcw so I'd really expected this build to be similar. Especially being an n18 dual vanos and the n14 single. I'd have expected the opposite, like the n14 being able to make thr higher boost numbers but nope.
when I hit 21.7 in this video I DONT have an nm module installed and my mods were far less. Mods were in the video then :
intake , exhaust , k04 turbo , catless dp , upgraded ic piping and alta ic... all my other upgrades I've since added I didn't see anymore max boost BUT they absolutely helped eliminate ANY boost lag and helped the engine get into max boost much sooner..
can i upload datalogs from torqueplus ? If so ille do that real soon. I just gotta get my new coilovers ordered yet but once those are on I can upload a log or atleast a recording of certain parameters while doing a pull..
but your right the nm module tricks the mafs AND tmap in thinking theyre seeing less air i believe so then the car demands more and then it would also raise the max boost threshold technically.. but i think its doing more than just that because I'd assume just boost alone raised like that would cause a lean condition.

 

I think the 21.7 psi is a result of the bigger turbo. That thing should be pushing a TON of air compared to the JCW. I believe the JCW pressure sensor is a 2.5 BAR device, which would put it at ~22 psig (36.5 - 14)

 

I have never seen over 19psi with my R56 (stage 2 RPMPowered Tune/Ko4) and never above 20psi with my R60 (Prototype-R Stage 2/Mamba Turbo)

I have all the supporting mods aside from porting and the nm module, I do have a JB4 on the R60, Lou is currently going over my datalogs to update for the new Mamba though, so we will see what happens. I plan on going Stage 3 when I get Cat Cams, porting, and finish building my full 3" exhaust.

I would love to see 22-24psi, I would be terrified about the longevity of my engine after seeing numbers like that. I do plan on have a DIY intercooler spray set up to help reduce heat after it gets hot to help with timing.

 

IN a Cooper S motor, no way would I want to see more than 20-21 psi, high compression and all. But, JCW motor is built a little differently. It might be able to handle a little bit more.

I was thinking about this more, and even though you have an A/F gauge, doesn't really mean its safe. I stand by my recommendation that you should remove the NM module and data log boost values from the DME. Figure out what the DME is actually seeing.

 

As an aside, I don't believe you can combine tunes. The NM module must work over and above any tune you received and it's advertised as only a +4psi addition so 25 should be out of the question.

 

well im making 26.. i just checked again last night becausemy cars driving again so ima post a video to prove it.
then yall can claim my gauge isnt accurate or i must have the plumbing wwrong for the boost gauge..
but whst i was trying to say , what if one is tuned to 20psi. If i installed the nm module AFTER it was tuned you dont think it would raise the boost more ? I do . From my understanding of how these modules actually work it absolutely should. The modules function nothing like a tune. They basically tell the ecu it's seeing less air intake volume and less boost than it actually is so then the ecu demands the engine to make its set parameters. So.the ecu tells the engine it can only make say 20psi max BUT with the nm module intercepting and manipulating the sensors readings and causing them to read lower than what's actually going in. Then that's how more boost and intake cfm happen.
but ille get this video up in the next day or so.

 

jcw engine safe to 30psi with supporting mods.

 

So who's gonna paypal me some gas money n cover my time for this lol.. yall turned this into a pissing match ..
idc what your engine does or tuner tuned it to.. just because your car can't doesn't mean mine cant.. they're far different builds.
​​​​​I know what my cars making and I know damn well it is because I've put it up against other n18s and n14s and they had NOTHING for me..
this has gotten off topic...

 

Yall not seeing more than 20psi because your paying 2000$ for a turbo that's not even as good as the ebay k04's lolol that's your problem.. that rpm stafe 2??? Turbo is nothing special imo .mine has a bigger inlet housing and imo a better style compressor blade.. so maybe you guys should have atleast tried the turbo I've been ranting about fir 5years now..
the few people whove taken my advice have had nothing but the same awesome results as i have..
where do younthink these turbo come from ? These companies don't manufacture them..they of at the most assemble and rebrand them THATS IT.

 

Here ya go brothers.. temp was like high 50's and muggy af , id have done another run with sport mode ON but I forgot to turn it off when I recorded these 2x videos and it started raining.. idk if it makes any more boost in sport or just the changed inputs and feedback settings but here it is.. mehhhh I didn't hit 26.5psi but that's probably because of the weather.

 

BTW, my starting iat on the 3-5 was 60'F and at the end of the run it was 82'F..
is thatisn't efficient intake setup OR WHAT !

 

No one wants to try and bust my ***** anymore ? Cmon , not one " sorry , I was wrong "
that's the fking problem with society now , people are far too arrogant and far too ignorant. and its a terrible combo of negative traits to exhibit.

 

I think that attitude is why members are not engaging your threads as much...

I stand by my theory that the combination of your mods is allowing for higher boost. Also you mention adjusting the wastegate tighter. Also, also, the NM module is preventing the DME from seeing the higher boost, which is preventing boost cut. In this instance, yes, the stock DME will allow for 22+ psi, but only when fooled into thinking it isn't.

I wince at your comment that its running fine, however. You're pushing it far outside the bounds of what the stock JCW tune is calibrated. The old adage was the engine will run amazing, right before catastrophe.

 

I do plan to custom tune it.. i don't push the car hard in all honesty. I tend to try and hypermileage ...
I agree that though it running safe from what parameters I can monitor, it's definitely risky to continue to run it untuned.
Lol im just affriad the car wont be a peppy or responsive after tuning..
and sorry if it seems like I'm lashing out against you guys , I'm not , I was trying to find answers but then get sidetracked because either I'm not trusted or perceived as incorrect. Lol I'm not gonna lie or purposely post inaccurate information because all that would do is fudge everything up. Especially now with ai and how it obtains info for people from searches now , ALL that misinformation I've ranted about for years is coming back 10x fold now. And I atleast don't wanna contribute to that.
I guess me personally I'd never try and discredit someone or argue with them about stuff like that. Sure it's OK to question someone about how's they're gotten their answers. And then to only continue to argue it and insist that I'm wrong or something isn't right.
like I said I was makwas"said psi " and then I'm told " no your not " , it's almost offensive, like I'm being told I'm stupid or something.. lol you guys should know me by now , im NEVER afraid to say " sorry I was wrong " I never understood that with people and their inability to just say " I was wrong " or " sorry" . Lol that's how we learn , that's life.. lol
so I'm not upset at anyone or anything and nothing i said is directed at anyone either. I just just kinda stating my opinion on the majority of society.
it's all good..
But let's get this thread bsvk on track.

 

Definitely custom tune, but don't be worried about absolute boost values. Custom tune is all about maximizing efficiency from the engine and performance add-ons. Right now, you are basically running OEM tune, but outside of its intended operating window. In order to get the most from your parts, they all need to be optimized to work together.

 

So what psi EXACTLY should stock ecu for the n18 jcw cut boost then ?
what is max boost oem/factory ? Is it 16psi ???
is there any possible way to check and see if my ecu has been tuned ?
So could the stock ecu have THAT MUCH adaptability to run 20psi ? I guess I'd have figured the boost was almost completely controlled via ecu and sensors so shouldn't it only make the max boost set via stock tune/ecu ? Or does it have a certain psi leeway? But if that was the case it would only be for MORE boost because if it ever sees LESS boost it will immediately throw a cel for boost threshold efficiency but NOT when it sees MORE boost..
doesn't ecu control wastegate and divertvalve to regulate boost pressure ? If so that's where I'm confused as to then why EVEN WITHOUT the nm module I can still make 21psi.
personally I think my engine is pretty safe , im.basing that on my afr , buttdyno and my fuel trims looked great still actually. Do I think my engine is optimized? Hell no ! But I think it's atleast safe enough to do am occasional wot and just normal driving. But I absolutely would like to go custom tune very soon.. unfortunately it's just so dang expensive and like I've mentioned, i have my worries because of what I've been told regarding tuning..

 

I 75% agree.. but that's what I'm wondering, is it really running outside of the stock ecu tunes adaptability? I've gotten no cel , no pinging, no fuel cut like literally NOT ONE HICCUP. This build sofar I've been very very happy with because unlike my n14 I've spent 0 time chasing down cel's or limpmode.
Could these engines make say 250hp on 20psi and also make that same 250hp but with less psi ? I was under the impression with these engines it is safer to make more power with more boost as aposed to more timing or leaner afr..

 

From my understanding (stock boost targets aren't officially published)...

The N18 Cooper S uses a 2.5 BAR sensor, which converts to 29 psi. This is an absolute value, so you have to subtract ambient pressure of 14.7psi, and that gives you a sensor boost pressure of ~21 psi. Stock N18 S should see boost pressure of ~12-15 psi.

The N18 JCW uses a 3 BAR sensor, which converts to 43 psi, or a boost sensor pressure of 28 psi. Stock JCW boost pressure should be ~15-18 psi.

I could be off on my MAP sensor values. I do know they are not interchangeable, and the JCW sensor has a higher value than the S. Maybe the JCW sensor is 2.75 BAR, which would put the sensor boost pressure at ~25 psi... I also believe the stock DME has torque targets, not boost targets, which is why I mention a boost range. The DME will limit based on boost, but I don't think it only relies on boost values for control.

All that being said, I want to reiterate that you should plug in an OBD device that can read DME boost values and see what its reading. 26 psi in the manifold when running a piggy back unit that manipulate boost signals means your boost reading doesn't mean much.

 

Any reason this thread is titled

Cooper (non-S) [size=33px]?[/size]

 

dme boost levels wouldn't be accurate because the module whooe point is to fool ecu boost level calculation and have them be read lower than the actual boost and thats how it gets raised. So the ecu read out wouldn't be true boost , only a true vacuum source like from my manifold would read accurate boost.
but your absolute right about how the ecu damands power. It doesnt care about boost level it is torque limited somehow.
sooo that's exactly explain the feeling the car would do when wastegate was set wrong and it would boost too soon and it would do a throttle cut rather than a fuel or boost cut ( odd mini thing again ) I'd actually feel what felt like a boost or fuel cut but it was the throttle being cut amd it only did that when it would get into boost too soon. But lol dang if it wouldn't throttle cut , man , it makes this car soooooo much better hitting boost that soon.
I will upload a data log soon as my better kcan cable gets here and you guys can seechat its doing and boost its making.
because even AFTER removing the nm module AND setting the wastegate very soft , it STILL hits 21psi in 3rd gear so no matter how the wastegate is set , it won't effect my max psi it will only effect how soon or slow it gets into boost.
idk what else woukd cause my boost to be so high but lou did check and my tune WAS 100% STOCK so idk , maybe it's a factory freak.
don't get me wrong though , Im not saying this is the fastest r58 lol not by any means ,i actually feel like my n14 r58 made much better power but ille see once Lou custom tunes this n18 then that'll be the real comparison.
but cable the kcan cable is gonna be here tomorrow but I have another surgery tomorrow soooo it will take a few days before I can get that log uploaded to Lou and you guys to checkout..

 

BUT to answer my initial question if stock ecu/tune can allow 22psi. Yes , yes it can. It can allow upto 25psi because that is the limit/threshold of the jcw tmap sensor..