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I hope they can fix range issues by then, I can barely get to work and back with the range on the current version, and no charging between home at work let alone the mountain & autocross / hpde events (why I own a mini)
I hope they can fix range issues by then, I can barely get to work and back with the range on the current version, and no charging between home at work let alone the mountain & autocross / hpde events (why I own a mini)
Agreed. The Cooper SE is one of the best EVs, IMO, but it's a second car/commuter for many people, not a primary vehicle.
It's a killer second/commuter car, but the range and charge rate aren't there, yet, to be someone's only car. And, like you said, we love MINIs because we want to do MINI events and stuff like that, which the SE can't reasonably do. We'd own an SE, now, if it could get to events and do track days.
I'm sure we'll see a big jump with the G56, both because battery density will be better in 2 years and because the platform will be designed from the start to be a BEV.
200 miles and 100kW charging (vs 110 miles and 50kW charging of the current car) and it's much more useful as a primary vehicle. Make sure it can handle some track laps without pulling so much power, also, I hope.
tesla can't do trackdays without issues, the last event I instructed at had 1 tesla driver, with 2 cars. He alternated cars every session so they could cool off and charge. One was his the other was his wifes, also not very fast due to weight
tesla can't do trackdays without issues, the last event I instructed at had 1 tesla driver, with 2 cars. He alternated cars every session so they could cool off and charge. One was his the other was his wifes, also not very fast due to weight
Charging is definitely an issue. Hopefully that's resolved in the next few years, too, with trackside DC Fast Chargers.
Thermal issues are far, far better with the current Model 3 Performance than any other Tesla, except maybe the last year or so of Model S.
"Track Mode" can allow them to pre-cool the batteries and R&T says that performance doesn't drop meaningfully more than it does on some of the high performance gas cars they test, like the Civic Type R.
As far as track times, Tesla offers an after-sales wheel/tire package and brake pads (Track Package) and with those changes, Motor Trend / Randy Pobst posted a faster time in the Model 3 than he did in the Alfa Giulia QF at Streets of Willow.
They're not the best track cars, and charging is an issue for sure (there's no supercharger near my local track, so it's near impossible), but they're not all created equal, either. The Model 3 Performance with pads that don't have to work perfectly when cold (since EVs often don't use the pads, but they need to be capable of braking anyway) and pre-cooled can put down some pretty decent times competitive with some other sport sedans.
Yeah, the Gen 4 Minis could be the last ones to be seen in the US. No US Mini dealer can survive only selling electric Minis. BMW might offer some though. I've had 3 myself and I've probably got the best one ever made now. I doubt I'll ever get an electric car.
Yeah, the Gen 4 Minis could be the last ones to be seen in the US. No US Mini dealer can survive only selling electric Minis. BMW might offer some though. I've had 3 myself and I've probably got the best one ever made now. I doubt I'll ever get an electric car.
IMO, by the time 2030 rolls around, the only major selling point for a gas MINI would be because you just want the driving enjoyment of a lightweight vehicle with a manual transmission.
If someone wants an automatic anyway, EVs will be better cars overall, by far, (performance, 'fuel' costs, maintenance, reliability, home charging, etc.) and charge rates and infrastructure will be such that the downsides are nearly eliminated.
The Cooper SE is already a better car than an automatic Cooper S, IMO : Cheaper to buy, cheaper to own, quicker, etc. The issue is range and charge rate, now, but that won't be an issue for most people by 2030, probably sooner.
Then there's how our the electrical grid even by todays standards is antiquated with no upgrade plans in the future. It can also be easily be hacked into by a foreign power as components which keep it running are made abroad. Meanwhile California has regular rolling black outs and occasional full blown black outs that hamper charging stations and home chargers requiring one to grab a bicycle or a backup gas powered vehicle to get out of harms way when brush fires approach ones home, and in cold climates you'll be lucky to get a 60% charge making it very impractical as a primary vehicle for 90% of the population. That said, IMO everyone in an electric car = Impractical Pipe dream.
I also find it disturbing BMW plans on using MINI as a means to balance off their gas hog fleet of BMW's for their entire brand to meet Federal cafe' standards.....Once again, MINI.....The bastard red headed stepchild to BMW Corporate.
Presently there are some 40,000 children in the Congo who break rocks mining for the colbolt to be used in our electric car batteries.
Phew, at least we can still buy oil and avoid geopolitical, labor, and air quality side effects!
Meanwhile California has regular rolling black outs and occasional full blown black outs that hamper charging stations and home chargers requiring one to grab a bicycle or a backup gas powered vehicle to get out of harms way when brush fires approach ones home
Meanwhile in Florida, people have to turn around while trying to evacuate from hurricanes in their gas cars because there's no fuel left along evacuation routes... while EVs just charge and go.
and in cold climates you'll be lucky to get a 60% charge making it very impractical as a primary vehicle for 90% of the population.
Impractical for 90%?! Good grief. Complete nonsense.
EVs with sufficient range are more practical 360 days/year for those with home charging and many are only marginally less convenient even on normal trips.
I love light, manual-transmission sporty cars, and there are outlier cases where EVs aren't great (Track days, MTTS, living in Montana, etc.), but for mainstream vehicles, EVs have made many effectively obsolete already and the rest's days are numbered.
It will be a long time before EVs take over 100% of the market, if ever, but by the time 2030 rolls around, buying an automatic MINI will make near-zero sense for many people. MINI may even find out *before* 2030 that almost no one wants an auto, gas Cooper S when the Cooper SE is better in almost every way.
Phew, at least we can still buy oil and avoid geopolitical, labor, and air quality side effects!
By all means, always better to enslave a race of people, especially children just to make ones self "feel better" about themselves in what they drive for environments sake...can't argue with that logic....It's that same desire which empowered Germany through the 1940's but didn't end well for many others.
Originally Posted by Blainestang
Meanwhile in Florida, people have to turn around while trying to evacuate from hurricanes in their gas cars because there's no fuel left along evacuation routes... while EVs just charge and go.
They couldn't get fuel due to electrical grid in FL being down.....power was needed for the gas pumps....electric car doesn't run on fairy dust and good intentions......
Originally Posted by Blainestang
Impractical for 90%?! Good grief. Complete nonsense.
When temps drop below 40* electric car batteries will not fully charge substancially reducing an already marginal range....EV impractical and self serving for folks whom wish to feel good about themselves.
Originally Posted by Blainestang
EVs with sufficient range are more practical 360 days/year for those with home charging and many are only marginally less convenient even on normal trips.
What 200 miles ? 250 ? LMAO !
Originally Posted by Blainestang
I love light, manual-transmission sporty cars, and there are outlier cases where EVs aren't great (Track days, MTTS, living in Montana, etc.), but for mainstream vehicles, EVs have made many effectively obsolete already and the rest's days are numbered.
The Congo will have to enslave another 40,000 more four and eight year old kids just so you can live out your car fantasy....nice.
Originally Posted by Blainestang
It will be a long time before EVs take over 100% of the market, if ever, but by the time 2030 rolls around, buying an automatic MINI will make near-zero sense for many people. MINI may even find out *before* 2030 that almost no one wants an auto, gas Cooper S when the Cooper SE is better in almost every way.
Never happen.....Computer driven automatics do everything better/quicker. Our electrical grid will never handle the amount of EV cars you desire, unless more Nuke plants are built. And nuke plants are just like jails and state prisons....No one wants one in their back yard.
By all means, always better to enslave a race of people, especially children just to make ones self "feel better" about themselves in what they drive for environments sake...can't argue with that logic....It's that same desire which empowered Germany through the 1940's but didn't end well for many others.
I own gas cars and don't own EVs to "feel better about myself," nor is the environment a primary motivator. Gotta make strawman assumptions to attack, though! It's just funny that anyone would pretend oil has a better track record for negative side effects on human rights / health / wars / etc. vs... well, basically anything else.
Originally Posted by Eurothrasher
They couldn't get fuel due to electrical grid in FL being down.....power was needed for the gas pumps....electric car doesn't run on fairy dust and good intentions......
Wrong. But cool story.
The problem wasn't lack of electricity, it was not being able to refill fuel stations fast enough when there was a run on fuel as the hurricane approached.
So, gas was hard to find across Florida and especially on evacuation routes. Multiple people we knew gave up evacuating and turned around to ride out the storm at home. EVs were unaffected.
Originally Posted by Eurothrasher
When temps drop below 40* electric car batteries will not fully charge substancially reducing an already marginal range....EV impractical and self serving for folks whom wish to feel good about themselves.
Might want to tell all the people in Norway, the highest per capita EV country in the world that EVs don't work in the cold. Or the many, many EVs that are sold to cold weather states in the US, Canada, etc.
Originally Posted by Eurothrasher
What 200 miles ? 250 ? LMAO !
Yeah, way more than 10% of people can live comfortably with 200+ miles of range. With home charging they're more convenient than gas cars 360 days/year, and the ones with fast charging (100kW+) are often not much slower on normal trips, too.
Originally Posted by Eurothrasher
The Congo will have to enslave another 40,000 more four and eight year old kids just so you can live out your car fantasy....nice.
You're making stuff up. You have no idea what the Congo will have to do. EV companies are working on eliminating Cobalt, and trying to avoid buying Cobalt from Congo, in the mean time.
Originally Posted by Eurothrasher
Never happen.....Computer driven automatics do everything better/quicker.
Better than what? Do they shift faster than never having to shift?
What are you even talking about?
Originally Posted by Eurothrasher
Our electrical grid will never handle the amount of EV cars you desire,
Never? Cars will NEVER replace horses, either. And the internet is just a fad.
I own gas cars and don't own EVs to "feel better about myself," nor is the environment a primary motivator. Gotta make strawman assumptions to attack, though! It's just funny that anyone would pretend oil has a better track record for negative side effects on human rights / health / wars / etc. vs... well, basically anything else.
Wrong. But cool story.
The problem wasn't lack of electricity, it was not being able to refill fuel stations fast enough when there was a run on fuel as the hurricane approached.
So, gas was hard to find across Florida and especially on evacuation routes. Multiple people we knew gave up evacuating and turned around to ride out the storm at home. EVs were unaffected.
Might want to tell all the people in Norway, the highest per capita EV country in the world that EVs don't work in the cold. Or the many, many EVs that are sold to cold weather states in the US, Canada, etc.
Yeah, way more than 10% of people can live comfortably with 200+ miles of range. With home charging they're more convenient than gas cars 360 days/year, and the ones with fast charging (100kW+) are often not much slower on normal trips, too.
You're making stuff up. You have no idea what the Congo will have to do. EV companies are working on eliminating Cobalt, and trying to avoid buying Cobalt from Congo, in the mean time.
Better than what? Do they shift faster than never having to shift?
What are you even talking about?
Never? Cars will NEVER replace horses, either. And the internet is just a fad.
The purpose of my post as always is to educate.
Unfotunately, the meaningful benefits of electric cars are overrated and a myth directed at misinformed well meaning consumers. I have a few articles here to look over when time permits and will paraphrase some highlights below.
The moment an electric car is manufactured up to 17.5 tons of carbon dioxide is emitted by the making of the average electric car battery. To put that into perspective, a conventional internal combustion engine can produce aroud 45 metric tons of CO2 in a lifecycle of 160,000 miles. The manufacturing of the electric car battery alone has produced almost half of the metric tons of carbon dioxide than a regular car will for it's typical life emitting 74% more CO2 than for regular car. So while emission free on the road they still discharge a lot of the carbon-dioxide than conventional cars do merely based upon the production factors.
Scientific studies have shown that manufacturing an electric vehicle generates more carbon emissions than building a traditional car. They need to be light, which means manufacturing high-performing metals and composites. Factories use vast amounts of energy and often produce huge levels of greenhouse gas emissions in manufacturing of those raw materials.The Union of Concerned Scientists, a non-profit in Cambridge Massachusetts has calculated that: Manufacturing a mid-sized EV with an 84-mile range results in about 15 percent more emissions than manufacturing an equivalent gasoline vehicle. For larger, longer-range EVs that travel more than 250 miles per charge, the manufacturing emissions can be as much as 68 percent higher.
Getting back to charging stations around the country and in the home. The benefits during the EV's time on the road is also dependent upon the type of plant producing the electricity from where it is being charged. One who lives in a region of the country bearing coal fired power plants obviously not the best bedfellow negating any benefits an EV would provide with respect to CO2 emissions.
Once a car is off the road. About 80% of an average regular car can be recycled, into more cars, dishwashers, machinery, ect while many EV vehicles are made of light composites which cannot be recycled or bearing limited / expensive options. ( Even the huge wind turbine blades on wind farms generating electricity are not recycled, and piling up in landfills as they need to be replaced often ) Then there's the heavy electric car batttery which cannot be recycled. Let me repeat that.....None of the lithium-ion batteries in electric vehicles are recyclable ! The major contributor of CO2 to our environment cannot be recycled.....
In fact, not ONLY are they not recycleable, the lithium batteries are produced in the MOST polluting grids in the world.....They are made in China, Thailand, Germany and Poland whom rely on coal for electricity. The larger the car battery (kWh) the larger the carbon foot print. So any "gains" of range as you mentioned is direclty offset by the carbon footprint to produce the battery. It's why I am of the opionion EV's are irrevelent where the environment is concerned.
However, if one were to get behind the EV's positive attributes citing the fun factor of; torque off the line, low db levels in the cabin, smooth ride in traffic? Then I am on board and in full agreement with that assessment.
But for one to say that they want, own and drive an EV purely for environmental reasons ? Well, they certainly haven't done their home work.....and probably want one merely based upon virtue signalling and the optics of being "green" due to the neighborhood or region of the country where they live being EV's there are fashionable to own....
Same, which is why it's fair to point out that oil has *plenty* of it's own side effects, that EVs are usable for more than just 10% of the population, etc.
Originally Posted by Eurothrasher
The Union of Concerned Scientists, a non-profit in Cambridge Massachusetts has calculated that: Manufacturing a mid-sized EV with an 84-mile range results in about 15 percent more emissions than manufacturing an equivalent gasoline vehicle. For larger, longer-range EVs that travel more than 250 miles per charge, the manufacturing emissions can be as much as 68 percent higher.
Yes, manufacturing emissions are higher, but this claim ignores the second part of the equation. According to *the exact same source* you're citing, the manufacturing emissions are quickly offset by lower "fuel" emissions.
Of course, there are emissions from building every vehicle. Because of battery manufacturing, climate emissions from building electric vehicles are slightly higher those from manufacturing a gasoline vehicle.
Getting back to charging stations around the country and in the home. The benefits during the EV's time on the road is also dependent upon the type of plant producing the electricity from where it is being charged. One who lives in a region of the country bearing coal fired power plants obviously not the best bedfellow negating any benefits an EV would provide with respect to CO2 emissions.
Misleading. Even in the absolute worst regions as far as grid emissions, EVs have equivalent emissions to a 37mpg gas vehicle, but the vast majority of EVs are charging on much cleaner grids where the equivalent gas mileage is far, far higher. So, yeah, if you live in Illinois AND you were otherwise going to drive a VERY efficient gas vehicle (a MINI or something), AND you're shopping for an EV of average efficiency (a Model S or something), then it might have similar emissions. So, basically only if you live in a very particular location and are cross-shopping cars of very different classes would you break even. AND, electricity is getting cleaner and cleaner. Even just in the last few years, it's gotten substantially better. For the vast majority of cases, EVs are much cleaner. Again, this is the same source you cited above.
Originally Posted by Eurothrasher
many EV vehicles are made of light composites which cannot be recycled or bearing limited / expensive options.
Most aren't made of anything crazy. Maybe the BMW i3, but a lot are built on shared platforms and are generally normal materials like steel and aluminum. This is misleading at best.
Originally Posted by Eurothrasher
Then there's the heavy electric car batttery which cannot be recycled. Let me repeat that.....None of the lithium-ion batteries in electric vehicles are recyclable ! The major contributor of CO2 to our environment cannot be recycled.....
Even the most basic of google searches shows this is false or greatly exaggerated. One, car batteries can be reused for home energy storage and similar things. Also, per Tesla's website: "None of our scrapped lithium-ion batteries go to landfilling, and 100% are recycled."
Originally Posted by Eurothrasher
In fact, not ONLY are they not recycleable, the lithium batteries are produced in the MOST polluting grids in the world.....They are made in China, Thailand, Germany and Poland whom rely on coal for electricity.
What? Tesla makes batteries in Nevada. And soon Austin. VW is partnering with SK Innovation which is in Georgia. They're not all made with coal.
Originally Posted by Eurothrasher
But for one to say that they want, own and drive an EV purely for environmental reasons ? Well, they certainly haven't done their home work.....and probably want one merely based upon virtue signalling and the optics of being "green" due to the neighborhood or region of the country where they live being EV's there are fashionable to own....
I don't own EVs for primarily environmental reasons, but I'm comfortable that the actual data says my EVs are substantially greener than comparable gas vehicles.
Yeah, electric batteries don't create CO2 (which isn't that bad for the environment.....TREES), but when they fill up the landfills it's gonna be NASTY IN THE GROUND BABY. But nobody's gonna live to see what happens with that.
As for the rest you wrote my links state differently and are concrete.....
If you choose to use snopes to fact check...well, good luck with that !
Nuke power, Natural gas, coal power plants all require fossil fules when they are manufactured, run and maintained and distributed....Electricity at power plants is not produced with fairy dust and good intentions....No matter what you argue, you cant away from the fact that all EV is supported and developed with oil.
LOL, that article is about producing the actual *lithium* in Nevada... not the lithium-ion *batteries*. Tesla/Panasonic absolutely build batteries in Nevada.
Per Tesla, "In mid-2018, battery production at Gigafactory 1 reached an annualized rate of roughly 20 GWh, making it the highest-volume battery plant in the world."
As for the rest you wrote my links state differently and are concrete.....
Yeah, I used your own sources to disprove your misleading claims.
For instance, your source (UCS) says that EV manufacturing emissions are higher than ICE manufacturing emissions. That is true.
BUT, that's only one part of lifetime emissions. Once you account for "fuel" emissions, per YOUR source, EV lifetime emissions are lower than ICE emissions after just 6-16 months of driving. So, *lifetime* emissions are much lower despite higher manufacturing emissions.
So, it's extremely misleading to say that manufacturing emissions are much higher and neglect to mention that "fuel" emissions are so much lower that *lifetime* emissions are much lower overall.
No matter what you argue, you cant away from the fact that all EV is supported and developed with oil.
Cool strawman! You can't rebut my actual points, so you create a claim I never made so you can pretend to be right.
The only actual point you tried to rebut was about the lithium *batteries* and you posted an article about producing the actual *lithium* as if it proved anything about batteries.
You're in over your head when it comes to EVs. Your own sources prove you wrong. Lithium is not the same as lithium batteries. Lifetime emissions include more than just manufacturing emissions. EV fuel emissions are lower than even the most efficient ICE cars in many parts of the US and lower than typical ICE vehicles basically everywhere in the US, per your own source. Most EVs are produced using normal materials comparable to non-EVs. Nevada is home to one of the largest lithium-ion battery factories in the world.
IMO, by the time 2030 rolls around, the only major selling point for a gas MINI would be because you just want the driving enjoyment of a lightweight vehicle with a manual transmission.
.
This! I may be in the minority, but if Mini went to 100% automatics, I would probably transition to something like an Acura Integra to keep my manual shifter...
IMHO, MINI, like its parent company BMW, has lost its way. MINI was a small, nible vehicle with homage to the original Mini Cooper and Mini Cooper S. It's one thing to be able to "customize" your MINI by ordering a variety of options and interiors but now, it's become bulbous, overweight and frought with variants out the wazoo. If electrified, it will add boredom to its list of features.
Well, they certainly haven't done their home work.....and probably want one merely based upon virtue signalling and the optics of being "green" due to the neighborhood or region of the country where they live being EV's there are fashionable to own....
