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I see the advertised H.P. rating from the factory is 168 H.P.
I assume this is at the crank with no accessories. Right or wrong?
Does anyone have a figure at the wheels with no engine mods?
I'm asking as Bargain $500 Mini is headed to the Dyno on Wednesday and I'm trying to compare apples to apples.
Thanks,
robj
Thanks for that link. The third post , [Unoriginal] has pretty much the same mods as mine, Pulley, CAI and Borla exhaust and made 189 and 179 Hp [?] and 170 and 159 torque.
Not sure why there was a 10hp difference. It'll be interesting to see what I get with the same mods, [but at 165K miles].
I run my R53 with DSC off always. The DSC will retard your timing under acceleration (for no apparent reason) and seriously cut power when you least expect it. Also, check out my mods in my signature. My best dyno pull was 193.5 at the crank.
Last edited by cooper48; Aug 9, 2020 at 01:08 PM.
Reason: additional text
So let's split the difference say 17.5%. That would be 29.4 so let's call it a 30 HP loss? So stock, 138 HP at the wheels?
I would guess few dyno their cars in a stock configuration.
Anyone?
robj
I saw a 17% drop in a 1.8t Jetta I dyno'd... stock (150 hp motor, dyno'd 125 iirc). was testing a mod & wanted a stock motor to test it on. mod gained 8% hp/tq @ peak & 13% max for both hp/tq which brought it back up into the mid 140's.
I run my R53 with DSC off always. The DSC will retard your timing under acceleration (for no apparent reason) and seriously cut power when you least expect it. Also, check out my mods in my signature. My best dyno pull was 193.5 at the crank.
The DSC pulls back on the timing to cut power as a result of detecting a differential in wheel speed. A Torsen differential certainly helps in these situations. I notice much less power cut after installing one in my car.
15% loss is the standard we were taught when I was in college; it's the figure found in most textbooks, as well as Marks Standard Handbook for Mechanical Engineers.
168 is what the factory brochure claims, & yes that is at the crank. I don't know if that is without any ancillaries being driven. That being said, the alternator at full charge would only take about 2 hp to drive. The same for the A/C compressor. The supercharger definitely takes some power to drive, but you can't make the hp without it, so spinning that must have been included in the factory figure. They probably had the belt running over all the ancillaries, but didn't energize the field coils of the alternator, nor engaged the A/C compressor clutch. That way the alternator & A/C are just acting as idler pulleys; & the resultant drag would be minimal.
So with all that, 142-143 hp is what I would expect to see from a stock engine in good condition on a chassis dyno. This corroborates what I've actually seen.
Thanks Cut,
That's generally what I was thinking. I'm not sure how much the weather will affect things as it's been hot as blue blazes here in Md. And it does have 165K on it so it's not as tight as it once may have been.
I have a 15% pulley, a CAI and Borla, "aggressive" exhaust. Sort of just the "basics". But a set of Bosch 380cc injectors are on the workbench after which maybe a "tune". I'm really curious what the A/F ratio will be.
As I'm old[er] and reflexes aren't what they used to be I'm really looking more for response as opposed to peak, top end HP.
To be perfectly honest for my jaunts around the local country roads I'm pretty happy where it stands, but the old hot-rodder in me is always thinking about "maybe" just a little bit more.
Thanks for the reply.
robj
Thanks Cut,
That's generally what I was thinking. I'm not sure how much the weather will affect things as it's been hot as blue blazes here in Md. And it does have 165K on it so it's not as tight as it once may have been.
I have a 15% pulley, a CAI and Borla, "aggressive" exhaust. Sort of just the "basics". But a set of Bosch 380cc injectors are on the workbench after which maybe a "tune". I'm really curious what the A/F ratio will be.
As I'm old[er] and reflexes aren't what they used to be I'm really looking more for response as opposed to peak, top end HP.
To be perfectly honest for my jaunts around the local country roads I'm pretty happy where it stands, but the old hot-rodder in me is always thinking about "maybe" just a little bit more.
Thanks for the reply.
robj
Post your dyno run & your mods; I'd be very interested in seeing them.
Thanks Cut,
That's generally what I was thinking. I'm not sure how much the weather will affect things as it's been hot as blue blazes here in Md. And it does have 165K on it so it's not as tight as it once may have been.
I have a 15% pulley, a CAI and Borla, "aggressive" exhaust. Sort of just the "basics". But a set of Bosch 380cc injectors are on the workbench after which maybe a "tune". I'm really curious what the A/F ratio will be.
As I'm old[er] and reflexes aren't what they used to be I'm really looking more for response as opposed to peak, top end HP.
To be perfectly honest for my jaunts around the local country roads I'm pretty happy where it stands, but the old hot-rodder in me is always thinking about "maybe" just a little bit more.
Thanks for the reply.robj
I am in that same boat with looking for a fun 2nd ride that wont break the bank... well mostly wont break the bank. Looking to make it a solid ride then bring the power up to about 200 whp and call it a day.
I would like to learn how to tune a gasser (I do my own tuning on the main ride... 2005 Ram diesel) so that will be in the future as well.
I started thinking about my 200 hp comment... it might be that 200 is not what I want. I drive a diesel as my daily driver... tons of low end torque for daily driving and decent fuel economy (21.0 year round). I dont really care about peak numbers, its under the peak that matters to me and how flat the curves are. Having only owned mine for less than 2 weeks (waiting on a vibra-tech motor mount) the focus has been to make it whole and one I can rely on should the truck roll its finger out at me again (440k on it). Once that is done, pull the CAC aka intercooler, and insulate the fuel rail. For the life of me I do not understand why that is not done more often. hp/tq tossed out the window as fuel temps rise. (dyno'd it with a test plan)
Now its seeing limited duty with the bad mount. There is a possiblity that I may have the mount by Friday.
I started thinking about my 200 hp comment... it might be that 200 is not what I want. I drive a diesel as my daily driver... tons of low end torque for daily driving and decent fuel economy (21.0 year round). I dont really care about peak numbers, its under the peak that matters to me and how flat the curves are. Having only owned mine for less than 2 weeks (waiting on a vibra-tech motor mount) the focus has been to make it whole and one I can rely on should the truck roll its finger out at me again (440k on it). Once that is done, pull the CAC aka intercooler, and insulate the fuel rail. For the life of me I do not understand why that is not done more often. hp/tq tossed out the window as fuel temps rise. (dyno'd it with a test plan)
Now its seeing limited duty with the bad mount. There is a possiblity that I may have the mount by Friday.
I started thinking about my 200 hp comment... it might be that 200 is not what I want. I drive a diesel as my daily driver... tons of low end torque for daily driving and decent fuel economy (21.0 year round). I dont really care about peak numbers, its under the peak that matters to me and how flat the curves are. Having only owned mine for less than 2 weeks (waiting on a vibra-tech motor mount) the focus has been to make it whole and one I can rely on should the truck roll its finger out at me again (440k on it). Once that is done, pull the CAC aka intercooler, and insulate the fuel rail. For the life of me I do not understand why that is not done more often. hp/tq tossed out the window as fuel temps rise. (dyno'd it with a test plan)
Now its seeing limited duty with the bad mount. There is a possiblity that I may have the mount by Friday.
As one who also drives a high horsepower, boatloads-of-torque, compound turbo Cummins, I can say with authority that your Mini is a COMPLETELY different driving experience! Don't get me wrong, I love having oodles of grunt right off idle, but your Mini will never do that! However, the TriTec motor (what's in 1st Gen Minis) is a stout piece of iron, which can take a lot of abuse before giving up. (The 2nd Gen Peugeot motor, on the other hand, is a pile of dung!) Since you're never going to be able to make the Tritec pull hard right off idle, I figure go ahead & make it a screamer. Mine's a little soft below 1800, between 1800-3500 it's reasonable, & from 3500-7500 it really hauls booty! The 6-speed Getrag is butter smooth, so you can always find the right gear to keep the motor in its powerband. Best of all, it's still reliable as a daily driver.
I like your idea of insulating the fuel rail; I'll have to do that soon. Along those lines (because the fuel is getting a lot of heat from the discharge of the intercooler) I am building a water-to-air intercooler.
As one who also drives a high horsepower, boatloads-of-torque, compound turbo Cummins, I can say with authority that your Mini is a COMPLETELY different driving experience! Don't get me wrong, I love having oodles of grunt right off idle, but your Mini will never do that! However, the TriTec motor (what's in 1st Gen Minis) is a stout piece of iron, which can take a lot of abuse before giving up. (The 2nd Gen Peugeot motor, on the other hand, is a pile of dung!) Since you're never going to be able to make the Tritec pull hard right off idle, I figure go ahead & make it a screamer. Mine's a little soft below 1800, between 1800-3500 it's reasonable, & from 3500-7500 it really hauls booty! The 6-speed Getrag is butter smooth, so you can always find the right gear to keep the motor in its powerband. Best of all, it's still reliable as a daily driver.
I like your idea of insulating the fuel rail; I'll have to do that soon. Along those lines (because the fuel is getting a lot of heat from the discharge of the intercooler) I am building a water-to-air intercooler.
I think the mini can give me what I'm after but my expectations are its still a gas motor so its not going to be diesel like torque. Once upon a time I had a CR TDI Golf that was a blast to drive and did have that grunt on the bottom end since it was diesel. Considered going back to that but acceptable ones were a tad bit out of reach for paying cash for it. Didn't want a payment. After diving back into what the MINI had to offer in aftermarket parts it was a clear winner. Now I get to spread that "payment' out thru the go-faster goodies.
On the fuel rail insulation... the dyno test I did with the fuel cooler was to put numbers behind what I already knew, it gives more low-mid power. Discovered its benefits years back with a BMW 325is I had. Chipped it, chip required 93 octane and only had 91 available. Pinged when it got hot out. In stepped the fuel cooler, a simple 2 pass cooler took enough heat out of the heat soaked fuel in the worst conditions to stop the pinging and additionally gave the bump in bottom end power. Ever since then its been a must do mod and has proved itself on every ride except a Ram 5.9 gasser motor... too high of a power to weight ratio to feel it. It did however bump mpg by 6% IIRC. Even the current 2005 Ram diesel has one. Made a cover for it to use in nasty
cold conditions and have only used it a hand full of times. Being that its a daily driver, I set it up to be a commuter since I dont tow... lots of rotating mass removed.
Its just a 4 pass 3/8 in/out trans cooler... I've had it so long, and its been on a few of my rides and have no idea where I got it... most likely summit racing.
something as simple as this with airflow going across it... The key is to make sure it is not a greater risk in an accident, meaning it needs to be well protected
here is a thread where I posted the dyno info... IIRC at the start of the testing the ambient temps were mid 80's and wrapped it up in the upper 80's/low 90's... was there for a while.
