Drivetrain A question about turbo upgrades
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6th Gear
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 1,361
Likes: 246
From: Washington state
A question about turbo upgrades
Hey all, I have a 2012 Countryman, but this question isn’t model specific. Here goes:
I need a new turbo. I am currently shopping around online to see what I can get and prices etc.
I figured that since I need to replace it anyway, why not get a little bit of an upgraded one or a JCW turbo for it. I’ve been seeing hp increase claims on stock engines and bought right in because more boost = more POWAH!! Right? Well now I am having a bit of a mental quandary. The thing is, I just had an email exchange with someone who made me rethink my world view a little bit. The guy said that upgrading the turbo on a stock mcs would be pointless because the amount of boost used is controlled by the ECU, and any extra boost generated would be dumped by the wastegate, so there was no point in going above the stock turbo unless you’re going to do other mods as well.
Is this correct? Should I buy an OEM equivalent and just be happy with that, or does upgrading the turbo make a difference on an otherwise stock car??
please advise.... I know a lot of you out there have much more knowledge about this than I do!!
I am going to get a smooth silicone intake pipe from M7 and install that with the new turbo as well, fyi
thanks in advance everyone, I need some knowledge here, as I want to get one ordered and tackle this as soon as I can
I need a new turbo. I am currently shopping around online to see what I can get and prices etc.
I figured that since I need to replace it anyway, why not get a little bit of an upgraded one or a JCW turbo for it. I’ve been seeing hp increase claims on stock engines and bought right in because more boost = more POWAH!! Right? Well now I am having a bit of a mental quandary. The thing is, I just had an email exchange with someone who made me rethink my world view a little bit. The guy said that upgrading the turbo on a stock mcs would be pointless because the amount of boost used is controlled by the ECU, and any extra boost generated would be dumped by the wastegate, so there was no point in going above the stock turbo unless you’re going to do other mods as well.
Is this correct? Should I buy an OEM equivalent and just be happy with that, or does upgrading the turbo make a difference on an otherwise stock car??
please advise.... I know a lot of you out there have much more knowledge about this than I do!!
I am going to get a smooth silicone intake pipe from M7 and install that with the new turbo as well, fyi
thanks in advance everyone, I need some knowledge here, as I want to get one ordered and tackle this as soon as I can
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6th Gear
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 1,361
Likes: 246
From: Washington state
Well, I haven’t found a good answer other than others who have upgraded theirs do claim a notable difference even without ECU remapping. I spoke with the folks at gpop about it and said both are true. You will notice an improvement, but in order to take full advantage of the increase you need upgraded intake/exhaust and ECU to maximize it.
6th Gear
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,945
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From: Northern NV
A better way to get more boost is to use a turbo that isn't controlled by the ECU. Most turbos use positive pressure for waste gate control, and this is easily adjusted with an aftermarket boost controller, either manual or automatic. This process is more than your "why not get a little bit of an upgraded one or a JCW turbo" and will require different fittings for air (both in and out), oil, and coolant, but if you want serious power, consider it. There are kits out there to make it easier, i.e., ATP Turbo, but it's still a PITA and costly. And, you'll definitely need an ECU remap. If you'll be happy with a slight increase in performance, replace your turbo with a hybrid that bolts directly on and get an ECU remap.
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6th Gear
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 1,361
Likes: 246
From: Washington state
A better way to get more boost is to use a turbo that isn't controlled by the ECU. Most turbos use positive pressure for waste gate control, and this is easily adjusted with an aftermarket boost controller, either manual or automatic. This process is more than your "why not get a little bit of an upgraded one or a JCW turbo" and will require different fittings for air (both in and out), oil, and coolant, but if you want serious power, consider it. There are kits out there to make it easier, i.e., ATP Turbo, but it's still a PITA and costly. And, you'll definitely need an ECU remap. If you'll be happy with a slight increase in performance, replace your turbo with a hybrid that bolts directly on and get an ECU remap.
Im not looking to make crazy amounts of power. I only decided to upgrade the turbo to a JCW type because the cost was negligible and I had to replace it anyway. Hopefully I’ll be in the market for the ECU tune sooner than later, but there are a few things that are going to delay that for a little bit. And that’s fine, although “MORE POWAAH” is always a plus for me ;-) this is the daily driving family vehicle, so realistically all I really need is just a slight retuning to take advantage of the turbo and the few minor mods I have made, mostly just to improve overall drivability.
5th Gear
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 624
Likes: 69
From: Massapequa, NY
In theory (and I say in theory because I have no firsthand experience with it), they are right. Your peak boost is controlled by the ECU via the wastegate. If you put on a bigger turbo and make no other adjustments to the ECU, the turbo will take longer to spool up to peak boost and push your power band further up the rev range. It will take a tune accommodating the ECU to the higher boost to actually make any real power.
However, assuming you go with a stock Cooper S turbo again, there is still a lot left on the table as far as tuning is concerned, and you're not risking the health of the motor tuning for a big turbo without the appropriate supporting mods.
However, assuming you go with a stock Cooper S turbo again, there is still a lot left on the table as far as tuning is concerned, and you're not risking the health of the motor tuning for a big turbo without the appropriate supporting mods.
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6th Gear
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 1,361
Likes: 246
From: Washington state
In theory (and I say in theory because I have no firsthand experience with it), they are right. Your peak boost is controlled by the ECU via the wastegate. If you put on a bigger turbo and make no other adjustments to the ECU, the turbo will take longer to spool up to peak boost and push your power band further up the rev range. It will take a tune accommodating the ECU to the higher boost to actually make any real power.
However, assuming you go with a stock Cooper S turbo again, there is still a lot left on the table as far as tuning is concerned, and you're not risking the health of the motor tuning for a big turbo without the appropriate supporting mods.
However, assuming you go with a stock Cooper S turbo again, there is still a lot left on the table as far as tuning is concerned, and you're not risking the health of the motor tuning for a big turbo without the appropriate supporting mods.
Neutral
Joined: Mar 2021
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Turbo
What other mods do you need if any? Im thinking of getting a F21M Hybrid Turbocharger for my r56 and was wondering if anything other than a tune would be needed to support this?
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I'll echo what KNT said. If you are looking for a list, my build thread covers what is needed for the drivetrain.
1st Gear
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 24
Likes: 1
JMTC turbos suck
that’s right along the lines of how I was thinking as well. I didn’t go big with the turbo though. I ended up getting a JMTC JM40 which is a MCS turbo, with the compressor swapped for a 40mm like the JCW has. With the couple of minor things I’m doing as well, it should spool about the same or a bit quicker than the stock one, but make boost into higher rpm’s. I’m new to turbochargers, so I’ve been trying madly to educate myself. That said, I’m relying on others knowledge to aid me in this endeavor. I told Arric at JMTC about my car and what I have now, as well as want for the future. I was really worried about overdoing it with a larger turbo. Arric assured me that the turbo and my car, as is, would be fine, as the JM40 can be used in a bone-stock MCS. And that, of course, to really get the benefit of it, I would need a tune and a few other things. But it will work now, and be an improvement.
Neutral
Joined: Jan 2022
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
My car is a 2011 JCW (N14) .Currently in need of a new turbo as my wastegate on my stock JCW just gave up and i thought this would be the perfect time to change some things up so i'm looking into JMTC and F21M right now and kind of undecided which one to go with. I'm not really chasing big numbers but just need something really reliable and easy to work with. Apart from the turbos I listed is there any other turbos you guys recommend? Is the JMTC turbo worth it and is it reliable? p.s I dont track my car at all, I only often do occasionally do some spirited driving with some friends on some back roads.
1st Gear
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 24
Likes: 1
Not A Fan of JMTC
My car is a 2011 JCW (N14) .Currently in need of a new turbo as my wastegate on my stock JCW just gave up and i thought this would be the perfect time to change some things up so i'm looking into JMTC and F21M right now and kind of undecided which one to go with. I'm not really chasing big numbers but just need something really reliable and easy to work with. Apart from the turbos I listed is there any other turbos you guys recommend? Is the JMTC turbo worth it and is it reliable? p.s I dont track my car at all, I only often do occasionally do some spirited driving with some friends on some back roads.
I had a JMTC and could never get it to hold boost properly. Went with a Garrett and never looked back. Making 380whp.
6th Gear
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,945
Likes: 203
From: Northern NV
Denim763 --- Gotta agree with Itvennard, can't go wrong with a Garrett, and JMTC is known for unreliable Chinese products. If you don't want the associated big power with Garrett, try Owen Developments, they make an awesome hybrid for the R56. I highly recommend you work with a known Mini tuner before choosing a turbo. They have the knowledge and experience to help you choose.
EDIT: Contact Lou at https://prototype-r.com --- he builds hybrid turbos and can do remote tunes, so you don't need to send the ECU.
EDIT: Contact Lou at https://prototype-r.com --- he builds hybrid turbos and can do remote tunes, so you don't need to send the ECU.
Last edited by oldbrokenwind; Jan 27, 2022 at 11:06 AM.
Alliance Member
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 7,584
Likes: 2,523
From: WNY
Lou is a great guy, and an excellent tuner. I don't have experience with his hardware, but I wouldn't hesitate to recommend him.
Been running his turbo and tune for almost 2 year now with no issues, like 20k miles or so on 22psi. Was on RPM Power with a jmtc S42 and it was trash. The core on the their turbo is made by SLTurbo out of china and the tune was meh. Had a boost fluctuation issues for well over a year on RPM and was just throwing parts at it per "tuners" recommendations. Switched to Prototype-R and had the issue figured out pretty quick since he can remote tune and has his own datalogging software.
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