Okay - we start w/ a base MCS F56 Mini. DISCLAIMER: (following figures are not accurate but used for comparison purposes only)- additionally lets forget WHP and Crank HP in this example also:

Stock, an MCS produces lets say 190 HP and 210 Lb feet of torque.

So we add a JCW tune and lets say that adds 20HP and 30 Torque

So now the car 210 HP and 240 Torque

Adding an NM module Lets say claims to add 35HP and 40 lb lbs of torque.
These figures are based upon the tune being installed on a stock car, not a pre-tuned auto.

With that in mind, one would assume you are not going to get a 35 HP and 40 ft lb of torque more added to a car with a JCW tune, but likely the difference between the two tunes.

Following this logic adding the NM tune would actually yield 15 more HP to the 20 already provided by the JCW tune and 10 more torque added to the 30 already provided by the JCW.

So again, if one were to add, lets say a Dinan Elite tune to a stock MCS that says it increases HP by 90HP and 100 more Torque, on would figure it would be again based on a base, non modified car. If a car had a JCW tune the Dinan should only be adding the difference in those numbers since it is reading the mapping/boost and other controls and adjusting it upward to the max amount allowed by the Dinan tune (regardless of the starting point).

Does this sound correct and logical?

I mean, those of us with a JCW tune will have the benefit of the more open exhaust and possibly a few more HP because of it, but beyond that, a Dinan going on a stock MCS or a JCW tuned MCS should, in the end, yield the same results (give or take).

Yes or no? Discuss please. Desi needs some answers and opinions.

 

http://www.motoringfun.com/2015/11/1...-power-module/

 

Oh, Rickeeeeeee! You're confusing me!!

The tuning boxes, as you know, "tell" the DME that the boost is lower than it really is, by a fixed (single input box), or possibly variable (Dinan Elite box) amount.

So, the JCW tune lets the engine have a bit more boost and, possibly, adjusts fueling and whatever.

But the add-on box is still telling the DME the same lies, and thus, theoretically, the DME will make the same proportional adjustments.

And some of the other keepers that send signals to the DME -- signals that aren't adjusted by the add-on box -- should, theoretically, read what's really going on and, if they don't like what they're seeing, they will start dialing things back. Which, I believe, is why some have reported their cars actually de-powering at certain stress points.

But, in theory, until or unless other keepers dial things back, monster power from a JCW-tuned car seems like it could, theoretically, be possible when a tuning box is added.

We KNOW that, with the single-input boxes, 2 or 3 or 4 psi is gonna be thrown on top of whatever the DME thinks is happening, regardless of tune.

So, if a standard car calls for, say 11psi, and the JCW tune would call for, say 13psi in the same situation, then, if your single-input box adds 3psi, you're gonna get 14 psi on the standard tune and 16psi on the JCW car. Unless the engine's watchdogs won't let it happen because of some other over-limit condition that is sensed.

I think.

 

In thinking more deeply than my brain usually goes, I am wondering what the difference is between the Dinan Elite for JCW vs. Dinan Elite for the "regular" S model cars. I know the software and the computing power in the Elite is vastly more complex and superior to the Sport single-input Dinan box. And we know that the Elite is making several adjustments in real time, constantly. As the Elite "reads" what's going on, the baked in algorithms make real time adjustments to the signals the ELite sends on to the DME.

I believe what makes the Elite deliver more and smoother power is the processing speed and the complexity of those algorithms -- constant if/then analysis.

What I don't know is if the Elite for JCW knows that the car already has higher limits in the factory DME and, thus, isn't merely proportional in its adjustments. Only Dinan knows and they may or may not tell if asked.

But one reason why the NM and Dinan single-input boxes make JCW MINIs roar is that the single-input boxes ain't near as smart -- they just tell the same simple lie over and over again.

 

Aha, I got it. I assumed the box tuners were smarter than they are. Makes sense that they are not, if they merely add X PSI boost to the engine. with that in mind, the box will increase whatever the PSI number being produced by the motor to that new higher figure.

Doing this may or may not result in CEL's, limp modes or a drop in performance depending on whether the motor can handle the increased pressures w/ the other mapping included in the stock engine programing.

The NM (on low) and the JCW tune is hitting that sweet spot resulting the big performance gains.

The Dinan Elite w/ it's better integration (measuring a number of systems to keep things within safe operating parameters) should at least match the NM on JCW tuned car or perhaps exceed it. As stated in the above post, "Only Dinan knows for sure".

Either way, guys adding the Elite to a JCW car should get smoother power delivery and perhaps even better performance than w/ an NM box.

Guys adding it to a base MCS, should see a significant increase in performance over the same car w/ just a JCW tune (at least w/ the numbers provided by Dinan).

Looking back at some previous posts and websites, I came up w/ the following dyno info (variable based on many factors).

JCW tune to a base MINI adds about 16HP and 30 to the torque (from Motoringfun website)
NM module to a base MINI adds about 23HP and 23 to the torque (low setting)
NM added to a JCW Tuned MCS adds 60HP and 40 to the Torque (low) (from Motoringfun website)

Certainly the motor in the F56 is capable of HP in excess of 300 - so all of the above is well within it's operating capabilities (providing the other coding allows for it). We know the NM (low setting) and the JCW are simpatico.

I anxiously await the results of the Dinan Elite on both a stock and JCW tuned Mini.

FWIW section:

http://www.eurotuningnews.com/?p=593

 

Confusing thread for sure!

And with the title, only us older farts know what you are talking about.

 

" It will improve performance on any current BMW car (…by approx. 25-40% on turbocharged cars and, in some cases, with optional plug-ins, the performance increase can even exceed 100%)."

Interesting. I like the idea of 100% increase in performance. File this under "Seeing is Believing".

 

Dennis is easily confused anyway. After all, he is retired Army.

Not sophistmicated like us retired Air Farce guys.

 

Dunno why I went with the title for the thread, must have been a "flash-back" moment from my ill-spent "ute".

 

Haha, I like the way you phrased this! I don't know how it works either, but I came to the same guess as you. Makes sense to me. I went with a Burger unit for mostly the same reason- seemed logical that the extra wires vs. the NM is reading something- must be smarter. Hmm, Elite sounds like a very tempting upgrade...