First off, there have been no responses this post in the Cooper (non S) forum.
Second, please no "just get an S" comments. I have one. I like the R50 better.

So, what I am looking for is 100hp per liter out of my R50. Which shouldn't be that hard, right? Just stick on a turbo, cam, fuel pump/injectors/fuel rail and tune.

My problem is that I don't want to turbocharge/supercharge the engine.

So does this make the job essentially impossible?

Any thoughts on how much I can get out of the engine with a new cam, fuel pump, injectors/fuel rail and a tune?

I have the intake and the exhaust and I still want it to be street legal so, no cat delete. There are some plans to lighten the car... eventually.


Admin - please don't send this back to the Non-S forum - more than 130 looks but not a single reply.

All I am looking for is rough estimates or guesses on the true viability of this. Yes it is a lot of money for not much hp. I get it.

 

Would think you would have to change the head to have larger valves, a cam, increase the compression, larger injectors and get a tune to handle it. Then the big question is whether the stroke of the tritec is a plus or a negative.

 

Where are you located?

 

I am one of those 130 looks. While 100hp/liter is not so unusual these day with atmospheric engines but for R50 it is harder than you think. The R5x Mini aftermarket performance parts concentrate on R53 as it is a better car in most aspects unfortunately for you so there is very little parts and interest for R50. You will have to throw a lot of money at it and willing to go few has gone before. For the pure joy of atmospheric engine car closer to Mini price point, I would pick say a S2000 or a Lotus instead.

 

Also, as the car is basically the same with the engine removed, and the weight of the supercharger is about 20 lbs, why in your opinion is the R50 better than the R53?

 

r53coop-
I'm in Portland, Oregon, so, Alta, Madness and CravenSpeed are all here and there are several places that can work on them. The shop that has been working on my car, Dynasport, says that they can do what I want but I shouldn't expect much. They suggest a lot of head work (on the car and me - I'm sure they think that I am a little crazy). On why I like the R50 better than the R53. The throttle SEEMS to be a little more responsive and the car itself SEEMS more balanced. Mostly, I just LOVE the sound of the NA motor. The intake rasp at high RPM's is just unbeatable for me. I also like the feel of driving the car really "hard" - motor screaming, tiers squealing and glancing at the speed-o, I'm not even doing 60. Kind of like in the old MG's, Mini's, Triumphs and the like but with airbags to make feeble attempts at saving your life when you hit that tree. As optioned, the two cars are about 200 pounds different, my R50 only two options are the sunroof and the alarm (street parked for all it's life). The only option that the R53 doesn't have is the sunroof.


pnwr53s
The S2000 has occupied my thoughts. There is one for sale that I pass on my way home from the office. They want $20K. Seems WAY to high of a price, though I have not actually looked into that car at all, just see it parked in the used lot next to the Chevy dealer with $20,000 in the windshield. For that money, I would keep my R50 and have more, er... "power."


I know that there isn't much out there for the R50. My thoughts are, after talking to the techs at Dynasport, that there isn't much you can do with the bottom of motor, maybe add oil squirters to cool the pistons a little. Most of the R53 stuff should just bolt right on to the R50 ie - injectors, fuel rail and pump.


I am not sure how high the motor will rev. If it could go to say 8500, the bigger fuel system would make sense. Not really sure how much hp another 1300 rpm will do though.

 

The tech data I find says the weight difference in between the r50 and the r53 is like 33 lbs. Where are you getting the 200? Also, with the same stroke would think the rpms are similar to the overall hp curve.

I am a long way from being 100% sane, but, sorry just do not see the point here in trying to mod an engine that has already modded via forced induction and works quite well.

Had two s2000s and they are great cars. I have my JCW modded to have similar HP and love it. I never drove the s2000 on roads that I have have taken the MINI, but with the FWD and the steering geometry of the MINI, I am thinking the MINI corners better.

 

not sure how accurate this web site is but it seems to fit my memory of when I was buying my car back in 2004.


2678 vs 2315 (the US version is the 5th one listed)
http://www.automobile-catalog.com/ma...er_s/2005.html
http://www.automobile-catalog.com/ma...oper/2004.html

 

sorry the edit doesn't seem to want to work. the cooper is a direct link.

 

2002



2006

 

yeah 2006 shows 120 pound difference, that's the diff in hood, brakes & supercharger, not sure if the trans on the S weighs more

 

• S has better transmission over the Midland on Justa.
• Justa has lighter flywheel which contributes to the lighter weight and faster reving feel like you would experience with SM/clutch on S. Justa's crank damper might be lighter too but I am not sure.
• Justa starts with 15" vs 16" wheels on S and there is some weight difference.
• S has stronger springs; and thicker sway bar at least in the rear is my impression.

 

I didn't want to list these until I verify:

• S has forged con rods and Justa does not.
• S has forged crank and Justa does not.
• Justa has flat pitston top while S has concave top to reduce compression ratio.,
• S has upgraded intake and exhaust valves.

 

Yes it is England based but the numbers I found without talking all the "optional special equipment" is 1125 kg for the Justa and 1140 kg for the S. That works out to 2480 vs 2513. I do not know other than the supercharger what could be ordered on the S but not on the Justa.

The Brits use "Kerb" not "Curb".

 

And the British Minis get better MPG too! I learnt to drive on their side of the road in a bloody proper manual gearbox.

 

I had my car weighed at an auto-x a long while back; a little over 2400 with me in the car and a full tank of gas. Not to beat a dead horse... per the owners manual above curb weight for the cooper and S includes a 165 pound driver, with 90% of fuel and no options... this shows 198 pound difference at the 2002 model year and 154 pounds at 2006 - no mention of driver, fuel or options.


I love this place! I love that we all pick nits like the world will end if we don't. I really do love these exchanges.


Anywhooo, back on topic...


The forged bits inside the motor is something that I knew about but I am not sure that they would be needed on a non force fed motor with 160hp at the flywheel which would be my goal.


As a flight of fancy and to pick minds that are more inclined than mine in tuning cars - would the internals need to be addressed to get a modest output of 160?


If I didn't would my motor go off like a top-fuel dragster when they blow a motor if I don't do the internals?


The fuel system is something that I could tackle myself - save the pump (still not sure that would be needed).

The cam would have to be done at a shop. But the internals - con rods, crank - would that be needed? I see the need with a supercharger or turbo but a NA motor?

 

More nits here but I am thinking that we should be talking torque and not HP as HP is derived by the torque and engine RPMs. HP = torque x RPM divided by 5,252 (ask James Watt why 5252). Hopefully somebody will be able to explain all this in language the majority of us can understand.

Based upon the size of the piston, how much fuel can be introduced, the compression rating of the cylinder and the air/fuel mixture, the force that I would think were Joules could be derived.

Are you planning on hitting the Lottery as the cost to do what you want is going to be expensive. And if you are planning on hitting the lottery, will you give me a couple hundred thousand dollars?????????

 

If it were me I'd do, Head, Cam, Injectors, Exhaust and W/M kit, (but don't run a W/M mix, run 100% Methanol, it will allow you to maximize your timing, and since it also a fuel, may keep you from having to improve your fuel system as well) then just see where you are from there, it should be pretty close.
Then if you have to do internals and/or a compression bump, all of these items will carry over, or if you change you mind, will also carry over (to some extent) to an S, for your other car or resale.

 

Does the fact that you gave my post a Thumbs Up thanks mean you are going to give me the money??????????

 

From my years of snowmobile racing, it takes about twice the amount of methanol to create the same energy as gasoline. Would think you would need to increase the injector size that in tune requires larger supply lines etc.

 

True, if you were running methanol only, I'm taking about an adder injection kit.
I edited my post to avoid confusion.

 

r53coop
the post made me laugh. Thanks I needed that today. I did win $2 in the Megamillions last week... not sure that is enough to retire on or really spread the wealth...


Long story short - I have been saving for a toy for about 5 years now... classic or build my car up. Building my car up seems like fun. As every classic car, no matter what the marque, goes up in value to the point where I cannot justify buy one. It started with the the Porsche 912, the poor man's Porsche, then Alfa that most didn't want - the GTV (non-step nose - even the juniors), then back to Porsche 914, Spitfire FHC or Triumph GT6+... I could go on. All are moving to the $25k to $30 range unless you know how to weld, which I don't. I'm hijacking my own tread...
No sure on the methanol injection path, though it isn't some thing that I had though about and it sounds like for good reason. Anyway, the lotto has been "won" so to speak by saving money for half a decade.


Not thinking that methanol is the route I want... something to think about...

 

With some carbon fiber body parts, lightweight racing wheels, removing the back seat type stuff you can get the weight down even more and with a supercharger/turbo could have a real nice twistie carver.

The difference between the S and a JCW is around 30 HP. I took my JCW and added another 30 HP through some mods. A MINI with over 240 HP is one really fun car. The Gen1 body style is also now getting allot of kudos.

Keep us advised of what you end up doing and although $1 is less than $100,000, I will send you my email address so that you can send me the money you promised via Paypal.

The mods I can do with the money . . . . . . .

 

Just a thought. There are much more base Coopers over the pond, so probably more tuning parts offering in Europe especially UK.

 

This is going to be bigger than I though... will need to scavenge Minis that are being parted out. I had a short but very informative talk with RevolutionMini. What is needed isn't hard at all, just expensive. Head, cam, 450 injectors, header and a tune. May need a better fuel rail and pump depending on the tune. The Midlands that was rebuilt is just starting to make noise, so the 6speed swap is in order... sometime. Here is the rub... need to have stronger internals to handle the power and be reliable for daily driving and track days. The flip side to that is that it could rev to 8000 all day long...