I'm looking at this proposed change for 2018 http://cdn.growassets.net/user_files...pdf?1490029181 (will not affect 2017 season, may or may not be put in place for 2018) - here's how it seems to shake out for MINIs:

Cooper (non-S) (2000-13): moved from STF to STS competing with the God's chariot, 88-89 Civics

Cooper S Turbo (2007-2016): moved from STX to new class STH purpose being an open boost turbo class, so it moves here along with all the former STX turbo cars like MazdaSpeed3, Focus/Fiesta ST, WRX, GTI

Cooper S 03-06 (incl. 2004-05 dealer-installed [I'm assuming this would include 06 factory JCWs] and Cooper (non-S) (2014-15): stay in STX along with the BRZ and FR-S which also stay, and joined by the Acura RSX and '02-'05 Civic Si coming from STF

Seems like the biggest change is for the '07-'16 Turbo cars running in STX, they won't have to compete with the BRZ/FR-S anymore, probably a good thing for them overall.

As someone who would be running a 2006 JCW in STX this year it doesn't seem like it would have much effect other than mostly thinning the field and maybe adding some RSXs (I'm just running locally, not regional/national events, so not a huge deal to me either way, I just like to follow this stuff).

 

well that's dumb why wont they let r53 change pulley and go to STH with the turbo cars

 

Yeah I don't know if the thought is that the R53 is better off staying in STX or what.

I know an issue with turbo cars is you can't easily or accurately police whether it's been remapped for higher boost, like you can easily check a pulley diameter, but that still doesn't explain why they wouldn't let the R53s mod boost levels. That said, can you even hit close to the same levels, like 20psi+, with an aggressive pulley like you can with turbo remaps?

 

currently if you pulley change you get dumped into SMF with civics that are not even cars anymore, not driveable on the street

I'm at 17psi with a 17% pulley on my HPDE r53

 

Actually I think a lot of this went in motion because Craig won STX last year in a R56. By not a small margin. 1.294 seconds on an entire field of 71 Twins is an epic *** whooping. Note some of the other margins in the trophies are 0.001. Conclusion: the Mini is way better than a Twin in STX trim.

Note Craig won on 225F/205R tires, 245/15s are out this year so an STX Mini has a good shot to get even faster.

Note the change is not for open boost, but open ECU. As mentioned above, you can police a pulley change but policing boost tables on computer-controlled boost modern cars is impossible. I guess an EVO can get stupid power with a small hardware change, but that will NOT be legal in STU.

 

That's really interesting, didn't catch the part about open ECU. It's true if the supercharged Minis were moved and allowed open boost, then I (2006 MCS) would HAVE to change pulleys to be competitive (and get a tune to go with it), rather than just a tune/reflash.

What's surprising to me is that Craig was the only Mini... like did he crack the code, and if they keep it this way the field will be flooded with Minis next year, or is he just a freak of a driver with a perfectly sorted car? I kinda assumed he was an "outlier" when I saw the results... at least I haven't seen competitive STX Mini's locally, though it's a really small sample size. I don't follow it nationally close enough.

 

but the message is at the heart of it everyone reflashes these things for more boost, just like everyone does a pulley as soon as they buy an R53

it's dumb, just wait till some of these F56's really crank up the boost I've seen dyno's over 300 at the wheel now

 

I agree, I don't like open ECU on turbo cars either. I just don't think they could come up with a better solution that's easily checked. At least lumping most of the turbo cars together levels the playing field.

And there's always the wildly different needs of local and national AX. The first thing most kids do these days when the get their brand new Fiesta ST or WRX is order a Cobb Accessport. Sending them straight to SMF is nearly cruel.

On the pointy end, a custom razor edge 100 octane tune that chews through turbos and can overwhelm the stock clutch and heat soak an IC in 30 seconds is not so great.

On one hand giving an allowance that a common enthusiast does is good.
Giving SRSBZNS folk a freedom to go way over the top exploiting said allowance is usually bad.

Balancing the two is impossible.

 

yup - they want to protect what is probably the largest class in the game right now. I like the STH proposal overall in theory, but there is no car in that class that can take down that MCS. may be popular regionally, but I don't see how it will do well at nats, aside from the generic popularity of hot hatches & tuning being a common mod. no love for the slow cars anymore though, which is pretty sad

 

I like the proposal mainly due to the fact that it's impossible to currently police illegal boost. For those of you that don't know, I was protested for illegal boost in 2016 when I won. After 2 or so hours in the protest tent they decided there was no good way to verify whether my tune had an altered boost table. Not only was the protest unfair to me as a competitor who had a legal tune, it's also unfair to those that have no way to verify my tune. The best option IMHO is to create this STH class. The MCS will be the leading car in the class IMO mainly due to the light weight as well as the excellent chassis on the MCS. Write your letters now and enjoy having one of the top cars for the class for years to come while also enjoying open ECU (open boost) :-) if no one writes letters though it likely won't be approved

 

Locally this is a great idea. Many regions already have a street mod + street tire class for cars that almost exclusively fall into the new class.

What cars would be competitive in the class other than minis? Focus ST is close. Golf GTI manual can't take the hp but a DSG might work. Maybe a Fiesta with a diff?

What stops this from becoming a spec R56 class nationally?

 

gti's are very fast, so are fiesta ST

 

I think Fiestas don't have enough hp potential without swapping parts. Maybe they can get to 200hp but the will be ~60-80 off the fast minis and ~100 below the gtis.

GTI manual transmission clutch can't hold much power over stock. The DSG can but has a weight penalty. Should be interesting with their trick diffs vs the os gikens.

 

gti's make 265 with a stage 1 on the stock clutch

there's a local guy that is always top 5 raw and top pax with a 2012 in GS or whatever the stock class they run is, they are fast cars

 

A lot of what makes the Mk7 fast in GS trim is the magic diff in the PP package cars. It torque vectors, can put 100% of the power to the outside front. I've seen a buddy's car power oversteer in low grip conditions. Power oversteer in a fwd car, crazy!

Moving from 7.5" to 9" wheels with 255s, some camber, and an extra 100ft*lb or so where it counts would be pretty brutal. Still quite a bit heavier and bigger than a Mini so would have trouble in the tight stuff, but with room to run look out.

A DSG car so you can run all the power would be slick, but a trans tune is currently illegal in ST and may stay that way in STH. Manual cars can't launch for **** in GS trim, no idea if ST-style motor mounts would fix that.

Me I like STH locally but don't like it nationally. The whole point of a "hot hatch" is a one-car-for-everything deal. National prep ST cars are miserable on the street, especially a fwd one. That's fine for your toy STR roadster, STU Corvette, or POS STS car. But as an only car? Nope.

 

nobody is checking on trans tunes either

I hate that all this goes on with the wrx/legacy too but they left them in STX where I have to deal with them with my R53

 

Well that's not really the point. It's not allowed. Don't cheat. We're self policing. My policy is if you have to cheat to win a $3 trophy than go for it, not sure what satisfaction you get out of it. The actually fast people play by the rules. They're just good.

It's still a driver's sport, and no matter what you've got you still need to be able to use it.

 

How much power could a STH legal r56 make? A quick look around the internet suggests that 285 is possible.

 

people cheat, if I had a subaru I would remove that ticking time bomb cat too and not say a word

with these new 245 tires out, has anyone tried them in stx yet? rival S has one, and the r-s4

 

FWIW, I would not want you next to me in grid, that's outside the spirit of the sport. Don't cheat. Simple.

Craig posted the 245 Rival 1.5 on the front of his car. The STR guys are switching to them en masse, but may be a lemming effect.

Not a ton of rs4 testing out, but looks like they're off RE71 and Rival pace. Supposedly they like heat like the old RS3v1. I've also seen at least one size runs reallllly wide for the supposed size.

 

I personally dont care if someone does a mod like that, especially in ST

I just put a set of rs4's on my track car, I've not autocrossed on them yet but I might.

 

I ran an ax with the rs4's a coupel weeks ago, hard to get heat in them I think I'm gonna try some sur4g 225/45/15, the rs4's are for my track car

 

I think the 1.5s are the tire to have if you're dual driving. Bridgestones are good for single drivers.

 

so now they are moving the turbo mini S's to STU instead of STH ? Dah hell? that's where the STI is

 

it is a cluster**** of a proposal. write your letters...




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