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Checked the KBB value on my 2015 Cooper and was somewhat dismayed. For such a great car IMO, I couldn't believe that private party was at $17,750 for a vehicle with 9,000 miles and retailed for over $28K. They lose money as fast as Chrysler products.
Well first. I would say that I kbb does not always define how much you can sell a car for. However, I would guess that the age is the major culprit skewing that number, as my 2015, has 30k on it and I believe would actually go for a bit more (mine msrp'd at 33,500) That being said, you just need to keep it for a year or two. As that value should almost stay the same.
I also think low sales is the major concern of the immediate drop, but I think that the new countryman will change that significantly; it is the car that sold the most MINIs for quite a long time, and the new one should pull in even more people.
Also, I believe the value of the previous generation, with its generally perceived poor reliability, has suppressed the value of these cars.
That's 65% of retail after for a 3 year old model. Low miles, true, but that's probably overrated by owners. And the 2018 models will probably go on order in 5 months right?
They just are not as quirky as they once were...there are a bazillion iterations of the Mini out now, and frankly they are all larger, so they compete with more. Also all the maintenance hurdles....back in 08 when I got my 09 that was just a year after the gen2s were out**....There was JUST the gen1 and the gen2. All the maintenance issues had not been totally vetted yet. I think it put a bad taste in everyones mouths and it hasnt washed out yet.
I mean, I own a Mini again, but also an FJ....check out the resale on those M'F'ers. Still quirky, and RE-LI-A-BLE as I'll get out. Mini...not either anymore as a brand :(
**should be noted gas was $4+ a gallon nationwide at the time.
FJ is crazy resale because they don't make them anymore. People who didn't want them new because of gas mileage and poor visibility now want them. Odd!
Below are photos of a 2008 fully-optioned, drop dead gorgeous Jaguar XJ8 that had an MSRP hovering above $86,000. I purchased it in 2010 for under $40,000. The car had 13,000 miles and came with Jaguar's CPO 6 year/100,000 mile excellent warranty. The tires were brand new Pirellis which the dealer put on the car, along with new brake pads, as part of the CPO protocol. When I traded the car in for a new 2012 XK, the dealer gave me $20,000 for a car with over 50,000 miles on it and worn out tires.
This is why I usually lease and just enjoy the new car smell every few years. Only draw back is limitations on aftermarket mods on a lease and the need to turn the car in in near-perfect condition. So, you eat it on depreciation if you buy new or you pay extra for the new car lease or you buy a near-new car still in warranty and get better value, if you can find the right car.
If you would have leased your Mini, the residual would have been about 60%. Meaning Corp Mini was estimating the car would have a value of $16800 at end of lease. In general terms a car depreciates the most the first year, and still significantly the second year. At 3 years and more, the depreciation starts to slow.
Mini's have a terrible reputation for reliability. Myself, I wouldn't own a Mini that didn't have a new car warranty. There's just too many horror stories out there.
Mini's have a terrible reputation for reliability. Myself, I wouldn't own a Mini that didn't have a new car warranty. There's just too many horror stories out there.
See, that's the issue, you are assuming the new ones are just as terrible as the second gen. The F56 has one issue which everyone does know about but has only affected a few people. And there has only been one confirmed failure of the fix. After owning an F56, I will absolutely be owning one, or maybe many, out of warranty.
With the number of higher mileage cars (60-100k miles) I have seen crop up in good condition, I feel confident enough to say that the F56 is more reliable than the R56. As far as considered a reliable car in general, I doubt that will happen. But I didn't buy a Toyota, and I very much expect to have to put money into it to keep it running well. Of course, coming from old BMWs with over 200k miles on them, I'm simply not afraid of it, even with the "New technology." Plus parts are a hell of a lot cheaper on my MINI than my old BMWs.
Well, the poor resale will not deter me from my love of Mini Coopers, and I'm not planning on getting rid of mine anytime soon. I realize all cars take a big resale hit other than Toyota, which seems impervious to depreciation. But I don't want to drive a toaster.
With the number of higher mileage cars (60-100k miles) I have seen crop up in good condition, I feel confident enough to say that the F56 is more reliable than the R56. As far as considered a reliable car in general, I doubt that will happen. But I didn't buy a Toyota, and I very much expect to have to put money into it to keep it running well. Of course, coming from old BMWs with over 200k miles on them, I'm simply not afraid of it, even with the "New technology." Plus parts are a hell of a lot cheaper on my MINI than my old BMWs.
Yes, sadly the days of buying parts at a reasonable price from BMW Mobile Tradition & other parts outlets for vintage BMW's are long gone! It was great while it lasted! But, of course the values of those great vintage cars have escalated too if you still have any in your garage.
The market for MINI in the USA is certainly dynamic, in many ways reflecting the times in which we are now living. Overall used car prices have softened, partly due to an increase in leasing over the past few years resulting in a surge of late-model, low-mileage lease returns starting to appear in the resale market.
The good news for MINI buyers is increased opportunities to buy CPO MINI's with some of the depreciation burned off -- the bad news is dealers wanting premium prices for late model CPO resale cars.
Many high line lux brands, including BMW, Mercedes, Jag, Lexus, and, of course the domestics like Caddy and Lincoln, often suffer substantial front-end depreciation, which has been true for many years now. As I have mentioned in this thread, in 2010 I purchased a full-optioned Jag with a $86,000+ MSRP, which had all of 13,000 miles and came with a 6-year Jag Select Edition CPO warranty -- basically a spotless new car with an extended warranty. I snagged that Jag for LESS THAN HALF the original MSRP and got 50,000 trouble-free miles of joy before trading it in for a $20,000 credit toward my next new car.
This example demonstrates over 50% price depreciation in 24 months from new on a flawless high-line car with 13,000 original miles driven, followed by about another $17,000 value drop over the next 30 months/42,000 miles, ending up with a 2008 car worth $20,000 trade-in value in mid-2012 that a 3rd retail customer then bought from the dealer for about $26,000 retail.
So overall, MINI's don't do too badly in real dollar terms.
The lease deal I was offered by MINI USA in October, 2016 was 65% residual for a 36 month/10,000 per year term. And the residual was based on a MSRP over $40,000, which was way more than our final agreed upon selling price (cap cost) for the car. At lease end I will be shocked if the market value is nearly as high as the agreed upon residual value, but that's MINI's problem, not mine.
Last edited by 2017All4; Feb 10, 2017 at 05:40 PM.
See, that's the issue, you are assuming the new ones are just as terrible as the second gen. The F56 has one issue which everyone does know about but has only affected a few people. And there has only been one confirmed failure of the fix. After owning an F56, I will absolutely be owning one, or maybe many, out of warranty.
Which One issue are you talking about out of the dozen or more issues I had with my 2015 F56?
I was a bit shocked by this too. My ideal needs in a car have changed somewhat lately (looking for something that can carry 4 comfortably) so I went to look at a VWs earlier this week. KBB trade in was only $15500 and the dealer only wanted to give me $14500 for my $25000 MSRP 2016 B38 MINI with 11k miles and in flawless condition. :-\
At that little of value, I could buy a decent 2nd car with that amount of negative equity.
Needless to say, we are keeping the MINI and looking at swapping my wife's car instead (Honda). I think reliability concerns, saturation of the brand, and low gas prices have all hurt the resale value.
I was a bit shocked by this too. My ideal needs in a car have changed somewhat lately (looking for something that can carry 4 comfortably) so I went to look at a VWs earlier this week. KBB trade in was only $15500 and the dealer only wanted to give me $14500 for my $25000 MSRP 2016 B38 MINI with 11k miles and in flawless condition. :-\
At that little of value, I could buy a decent 2nd car with that amount of negative equity.
Needless to say, we are keeping the MINI and looking at swapping my wife's car instead (Honda). I think reliability concerns, saturation of the brand, and low gas prices have all hurt the resale value.
I would suggest you give MINI an opportunity to earn your return business --perhaps a Clubman?? Or a Countryman?? Seats four and everybody gets his/her own door.
If another larger MINI can work for you, I would hold out and make MINI absorb the negative equity, even though they will initially tell you it can't be done. There's a deal there somewhere.
I would suggest you give MINI an opportunity to earn your return business --perhaps a Clubman?? Or a Countryman?? Seats four and everybody gets his/her own door.
If another larger MINI can work for you, I would hold out and make MINI absorb the negative equity, even though they will initially tell you it can't be done. There's a deal there somewhere.
Actually I had considered a 4-door MINI - I had a rental 4-door S (F55) while my F56 was getting fixed and really liked it. Unfortunately, it and any of the bigger MINIs are very likely out of my price range.
However, it would be interesting to see what MINI would offer me for my car - especially since I am on the MINI Select financing plan. According to their calculations at time of financing, my F56 should have a residual value of $9200 in 52 months from now... given that its worth only about 50%-60% more than that now, I hope I can finance out that balloon payment at that time!
Actually I had considered a 4-door MINI - I had a rental 4-door S (F55) while my F56 was getting fixed and really liked it. Unfortunately, it and any of the bigger MINIs are very likely out of my price range.
However, it would be interesting to see what MINI would offer me for my car - especially since I am on the MINI Select financing plan. According to their calculations at time of financing, my F56 should have a residual value of $9200 in 52 months from now... given that its worth only about 50%-60% more than that now, I hope I can finance out that balloon payment at that time!
This is a difficult time to trade a car with only a few months in service because used prices are so soft for most brands, including MINI. The front-loaded depreciation is substantial no matter how you slice it.
The Select program does make it more complex, but it will still come down to the payoff amount.
One way to approach this would be to go online and visit the web sites of dealers in your region to see if by any chance they have a car you would consider that might work.
Assuming the BEST you could hope for is that the MINI dealer will cover your payoff, and the best you might do on the next MINI is gonna be near MSRP (because there's no way they can give you an invoice deal on a new MINI and swallow negative equity in your current MINI), you might be able to put something together.
The main thing to watch out for is the dealer trying to fold "negative equity" into any new loan. To make this have any kind of economic sense the dealer has to credit you with the entire payoff amount on your current MINI, which they will NOT want to do. But if you hang tough, you might be surprised -- but if you get into negotiations, stay alert and make sure you are clear about everything they are doing with the numbers.
You might want to PM Zillon who posts on NAM. He sells MINIs and might give you an honest idea about what is possible in your situation.
