Hi everyone. I just joined and was wondering if anyone is racing Solo2 in their Mini. I'm planning on getting back into it and don't have any experience with racing an ff configuration car. Obviously the handling is suitable for autocross, but I'm worried about the launch compared to a rwd car. Does anyone have any direct experience with an MCS compared to, say a Miata?

Thanks in advance!
Dave

 

post moved from MINI Talk

Welcome Dave!

Yes, a lot of owners are autocrossing. Please check out our autocross forums. :smile:

Dave

 

At the moment I'm sitting in second place behind another MCS in first for G-Stock at the Region 12 SCCA grouping. If you want to race, you picked the right car.

The first place car will be out of the running the next race, so I'm looking at taking the division just by showing up.

 

If you have an MC40 then your MCS can run in G-stock class of SCCA solo II autocross. You are allowed any front swaybar (don't bother), any cat-back exhaust (can be changed when you are ready), any drop in air filter that fits into the stock intake airbox (Foam unifilter, green filter, or K&N filter are options), stock wheel size rims (16x6.5" or 17x7" with wheel offsets of about +45 to +48mm), and any DOT approved tire.

You can do modifications that will send your MCS to more competitive classes.
STX (street touring for the MCS) -tires limited to wear rating of 140 or higher, Wheels up to 8" width, upgraded OEM/larger brakes allowed, lowered springs and adjustable rear swaybar allowed, strut bars allowed, ECU upgrade allowed, adding LSD allowed.
DSP (Street prepared for the MCS)- any wheel/tire, STX mods apply, fender and bumper modification allowed, upgraded brakes of OEM size rotors allowed, adding LSD allowed.
SM (Street modified for the MCS)- biggest upgrade is a reduction pulley of 15% to 19% but you can do alot of other upgrades- see the rule book.

In my region the results from the last autocross included these from Miatas and MINIs
E-stock Miata 61.5 seconds
C Street Prepared Miata 62.2 seconds
D Street Prepared MINI cooper S 69.1 seconds (novice w/only racing seat)
F Street Prepared MINI cooper 64.6 seconds
Street Mod MINI Cooper S 62.7 to 67.5 seconds (three)
Street Mod 2 Miata 59.7 seconds
By comparison
B Street Prepared Datsun 240Z 57.3 seconds
E Street Prepared Subaru STi 61.9 seconds

I'd say a mid modded MCS can be driven to within about a second or two of a modded miata. It may depend on the course, the tires and driver skill.

 

I ran my Mini and a Miata back to back a couple weekends ago at an autocross. As far as getting the cars off the starting line, it's not that different. I wouldn't worry too much about the launch, it's all the stuff that happens between the launch and the finish lights that really matters

It's funny how soft and underdamped the Miata feels compared to my Mini (I run HS with the sport suspension plus). However, the Miata has great gobs of grip and is very flickable.

Anyhow, don't worry about the Mini being "ff". It will take some getting used to, but overall, you drive a rwd about 90% the same as you drive a FWD or AWD, so it's all good.

 

in terms of setup.. tires make a huge difference... a friend of mine running on r-comps are consistently faster by 2-3 seconds every run

as for the miatas... in my local area an autocross puts pullied minis against supercharged miatas! even with r-comps and lsd minis got nothing on the miatas....

 

Thanks for the helpful responses! One issue that concernes me is that the car came with the run-flat system, so I won't race on those tires. I was thinking about picking up a set of lightweight steel rims and race tires so I don't put too many heat cycles in the race tires and don't chew up the run-flats on track. I also don't want to do any major mods to the car since it's a limited edition car and I want to keep it in stock form.

Oh, and sorry for missing the autocross forum! Eh, well, I'm a noob here.

 

That'd be a good idea, but you might want to think about some alloys - for the reason that to run in the stock class, you need wheels which are the same size as your OEM wheels... I don't know what the MC40 has for wheel size options, but your "race" wheels have to be that same size. And I don't think you'll find steel wheels in the right size, although I could be wrong. If you do, then go for it, they're heavy but they work.

Now, you don't have to run in stock, but I'd highly recommend it

 

don't get the steel rims... get r81s, they are oem sizes, although it'd be diffcult to find an r-comp with that size

keep it stock is your best chance if you are a beginner.. i modded mine before doing autox and boy did i regret it now!







well, not really..

 

This wheel is stock for the Cooper, not the S, so it's not legal right?

 

The run flats are good tires to get you to the event. Locally here in the San Francisco region you have two choices. You can run Novice class the first year but that must be done on street tires. Falken Azeins 215/45/16 are a good choice. As far as legal rims go we are limited to R84's the V-spoke, AK Tires has the "NICCO" http://www.aktiresusa.com/_packages.php hopefully they are the same legal offset as the "Monza" rims. Last but most expensive are the SSR Comps 6.5x16 from Tirerack. For rubber I'm running shaved Kumho V700's. I figure they will be good for around 70 runs, I'm at 37 now. I flipped them after 33.

The next local Event is at Golden Gate Fields on 9/26. Hope to see you there.
http://www.sfrscca.org/solo2/cgi-bin...t_three_months

 

carbonfiber,
With an MC40 ( a special looking otherwise stock MCS with R90 (two pieced spoked 17x7" wheels 24.1 pounds offset 48mm) you have the option of competing in Solo II G-stock class. Normally an MCS in G-stock should have the choice of stock wheels either R84 X-lyte (17.6 pounds offset 50mm) 16x6.5" or S-lyte R85 (25.1 pounds offset 50mm) 17x7" wheels.

If you want to keep your R90 wheels with runflats for street use and not use them for autocross then you can-
Buy 16x6.5" stock or aftermarket rims (look for stock offset) and put on better autocross non runflat tires like Falken Azenis Sport in 215/45-16
Or consider AK Monza 16x6.5" rims (13.9 pounds 44mm offset) with Azenis sport for $1050 a set at
http://www.webbmotorsports.com/suspension.php
Or 17" race rims but the tires will need to be 205/45-17, 215/40-17 or 215/45-17 size or your tire may rub the inner wheel lining.

16" rims are lighter and generally cheaper and tires of 205/50-16 or 215/45-16 will usually work OK. Talk to Alex@tirerack.com to discuss options. Mention you are looking at G-stock class if you are competing in SCCA solo II.

Steel rims in these sizes are not available for the MINI. You're better off with stock rims or aftermarket rims of the stock size if you can find them.

The R81 holey rim is stock for the MC 15x5.5" (12 pounds offset 45mm) and not legal for MCS in G-stock but is legal for MC in H-stock.

 

JustGo4It and minihune

Thanks very much for the detailed replies. The info you both provided is exactly what I was looking for. I'm still on the fence as to whether or not I want to race the car. I am still strongly considering picking up a 95 Miata "R" and just having that as a dedicated autocross car, since one can be had for next to nothing. Basically, I don't know if I want to beat up a new car just yet! Plus, it doesn't even have 1000 miles on it yet and, ehhh... it's supposed to be the wife's car too. I won't be able to race until next season anyways, but I wanted to figure out the stuff that I will need to get so that I can get everything put together over the winter. I'll probably change my mind over the winter and end up racing the Mini, though.

I really want to race stock, but I may end up in street prepared, mainly because a couple buddies will be racing with me and they have to race street prepared due to the mods they have done to their cars. We also want to race the same class so we can talk smack. hehe Thanks again!

 

I ran my first Autox a couple of weeks ago in my 04 MCS. Unfortunately for me, I have already done the pulley which puts me in the SM class and very difficult to compete against the Vette's and Camaro's not to mention my non existant skills.

However, I keep hearing the same advice time and time again, SEAT TIME! And I totally agree. Whether it's actually autocross or open track days you have to get out and see what you and your car can do.
After just one event I have already come to realize that if I want to do this and be somewhat competitive I'll need to get a stiffer rear bar and springs, just for starters. I've got lots of "go fast" mods but absolutely nothing to improve handling.

The best words Ihave heard thus far "a fast driver in a slow car generally will beat a slow driver in a fast car". Get some seat time!!!!!

How'd I do coach!!!!

 

The best advice I got from this and other forums is to run Stock when starting out. The MCS is very well placed in SCCA G-stock. With good tires and lighter stock rims you can be competitive your first season. I am in my rookie season and run with some pretty fast regional members (we have 2 National Champs, and 4 other trophies at 2004 Topeka) and I have climbed from 50th in the PAX to 16th out of 96 drivers and I'm not even running R compounds.

You run stock and let your buddies run SP and compare PAX index to see who the driver really is!

South Bend Region SCCA "Home of Solo Champions!"

 

I'm picking uip my MCS this week. What tires do you run? I have been running a base subaru Wagon in H stock (really not the right car) and can't wait to get out in my LSD S.

Is there anything else necessary to make it so the blame is on me not the car? I don't have lots of cash to throw at the car, but want to cover the bases.
Does this car have front cam like bolts like my Subaru. I saw the note about the bolts on the rear.

 

The MCS has no cam bolts. As far as tires go you can go with street tires like the Falkens or go all out with R compounds. Read this thread.
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...7&page=1&pp=40

 

Update on my "First Series"

Well, H-Sport springs, H-Sport comp bar (middle setting) and some much needed seat time have gotten me a first and second in the first two events. . Got hosed on Pax time in the second event. Beat a WRX Sti by almost a full second and got beat on Pax time. Explain that one!

Running in Novice I on Yoko Es100's. Next, some lighter wheels and sticker tires. More seat time.

If you haven't tried it yet, go for it. It's a blast

 

What exactly is Novice I ?? Looking at your mods would nationally put you in SM (Street Modified) I believe. Go to the link below to see all the different class indexes. Your fastest time is multiplied by your class index to give you your pax or indexed time.

What is Indexed?
This is the driver's best time multiplied by a performance index that theoretically compensates for performance differences between classes of cars.

http://www.scca-chicago.com/solo/indexes/rtp2005.html

 

Novice I, may be a regional thing to give us "rookies" someplace to cut our teeth without getting to discouraged running against the "big boys". Not sure.

I get the whole PAX thing and understand the reason for it. My question is, how does a WRX STI get a bigger handicap than a Mini? Doesn't seem right having to run against a 265 hp all wheel drive. Then again, life isn't fair. I'm okay, I'm dealing with it. I still beat him raw time which is more important to me in the long run.

 

The point is, if you're running in Street Modified, against a Stock WRX STi in A Stock, then by what is allowed in SM, and what cars are allowed in Street Mod, your car SHOULD be faster than an STi.
More often than not, people with MINIs get put in SM because of the modifications they choose to do, even though the car would never be competitive in that class.
If you built a full blown MINI Cooper S for Street Mod, heck yeah, you should be faster than a stock STi. I've already done that in our region with a guy's 250hp MINI. At that point you're comparing a 250hp 2400lbs car (MINI), vs. a 300hp 3000lbs car (STi). Besides that, driving a MINI in SM at the National level will always be at a disadvantage because it's FWD vs. the traction of AWD if there was an STi in Street Modified.

The bottom line is this, if you are trying to be Nationally competitive (which is where the PAX indexes are based), then you need to drive the most competitive car for the class. Driving a MINI in Street Mod with just a pulley would not be that, for example.

Having said all this...why are you in Street Modified with simply a couple of suspension mods?? Or are you in STX? In STX, if you beat a Stock STi in raw time, you'd beat them in PAX as well.

Give us a link to results so we can figure this out better...

Brian

 

You ask some intreging questions to which I can not answer. Are we running in the wrong class . I have done the pulley, CAI, ECU, exhaust, rear bar and springs. If I understand correctly, the pulley puts us in SM. Is that correct.

Here's the results: http://azsolo2.com/ Go to "results 2-13-05 should come up first. Also check out the results from 1-16-05.

Thanks for the info and helping gain a more in depth knowledge of the program.

 

Oh yeah, I didn't know about the rest of your mods. You're definitely in Street Modified.
That STi is in E Street Prepared, a SLOWER class than Street Modified. You could also run in Street Modified with a STi with no rear seat, carbon fiber hood, unbelievable boost, and 600hp. Would you then realize you should be faster ?
The point is, you're now running in the FASTEST street car class, anything that bolts on the car and is street legal is legal, plus R compounds, etc. Because you choose to run a MINI with much less power is why you're going to have a hard time with the PAX.
The STi is a good ESP car, and with the right preparation and great driver, you'd have a hard time beating it with a FULLY prepped SM MINI Cooper S and a great driver.

Back to the point - PAX is not based on the car you drive, it's based on the fastest driver in the fastest possible car for the class. It's always changing, but is relatively fair. Your situation is not unusual.

BTW, you'll not want to mention the PAX issue until you're at least beating all of the Stock classes in a Street Mod car first, no matter the driver. That should be your goal.

Brian