Gentlemen,
I am one of the sources of the problem.I purchased an K&N typhoon intake,Powerchip,Quicksilver header and exhaust,Denso plugs,19% Alta pulley,Plug wires,ect.What i am getting at is you can buy a top of line header set for a v8 for under 3 bills.Why do our headers cost 2 or 3 times as much??The same goes for exhaust systems.I thought after awhile the prices would reduce but i haven't seen much of a change.I believe we are all getting ripped all the way to the bank.We need to put an end to this crap.Short shift kit,what a joke,i think i paid 75 or 80 bucks for a 25 cent extension,a sample pack of lock-tight and a 1 dollar piece of aluminum.Will this ever end?

 

Powerchip has an ECU remap for a 19% pulley

 

Juzmackjr,

Will it ever end?

It's supply and demand. If no one buys these then either they will go on sale for less since they are overstocked or they will sell out and disappear due to lack of demand.

Why does it cost so much for mods?
Possible reasons-
Bad exchange rate- applies to european goods.
Extra taxes- VAT tax for UK goods.
R&D costs- these are passed along with the goods for places like JCW.
Cost of doing business- Hard to reduce the middlemen if tuners don't make the goods but do resell them.
Cost of shipping- a killer if you cannot ship by ground.
Small market- not that many MINIs out there that want mods
Few big companies making MINI parts-
Economics- it is what the market conditions will bear.

Thank you for being a mod pioneer and leading the way for the rest of us.

 

Minihune,

Thanks for the extensive list of reasons, but don't you agree?

 

Miniac@mini2,
They dont have a remap for a 19% pulley.It was what i paid for as an example.I am looking for a chip company that offers this to.

 

Yes. I agree.
I don't have my crystal ball shined up so I can tell the future and predict lower prices and better products.

I do have an 10 year old Maxima and have gone shopping for upgrades and can tell you that compared to 10 years ago when I was looking for upgrades the selection is now much better but the prices are still not the cheapest.
Exhausts can be generic but the full systems are about $500 to $700.
The cheaper ones are loud! Headers from $300 to $650.

My impression of ECU upgrades for the 19% pulley is that I won't be convinced that they really work until I can see the dyno results of with and without the ECU upgrade on an otherwise modded MCS with 19% pulley.
Anybody got those results handy?

 

Yeah I agree, this stuff is way overpriced. I have been waiting to buy stuff and almost nothing goes down in price. In fact, the next mod on my list is an exhaust and I was hoping they would go down in price but the opposite has happened. Two that I know of have actually gone up in price. (Borla and Magnaflow) very frustrating.

 

http://www.flowfaster.com/catalog.cfm?car=15
Don't know what the price is now but when I bought my Borla they were the cheapest I found. Very fast service and at the time shipping was included in the price.

 

i agree with the crap prices.

however, they'll charge what they'll charge, much like dealer markups and etc (i was lucky, as there werent nearly as many midwesterners trying to buy mini's when i bought mine).

so far, the only performance related things i've bought have been second hand (madness rear sway for 100), new introduction sale (pilo SS kit, which is the same as the ones being sold on ebay for $30, but bought for $65... should've bought a used b&m...), or very grassroots (the HAI, by andy).

i have the money. I just refuse to be bent over for a supposed (and unproven, in terms of temps) CAI that breathes less freely than a $35 KN.

 

I agree on the bad prices. But what can we expect from a market that is selling to people who have paid at least MSRP for their car and maybe as high as $5,000-$10,000 above the sticker price. Heck if we pay that much for a car, lets see what we pay for aftermarket.

I think most of the R&D costs, are a big excuse, since we have rarely seen any testing values for these products, and if R&D had been done, then the testing values should be readily available. Most of these products are the same exact items found on tons of other cars. For example, there are no R&D or very, very minimal R&D costs related to an intake. The CAI's on the market are nearly if not identical to any other CAI on the market. Tube/Filter/heatshield. Same as everyother CAI unit. Therefore general design work is not needed. There are no R&D costs for the filters, since all use filters sold by other companies. Some of the filters are as low as $20. The heat shields fit in the stock locations, so there is very little fitament design work. And lastly most, tubes are stock tubes purchased from other companies. The intakes that costs $199 or more can often be built at $100. That is a double markup or more. If this is the case, that is fine, but don't give us the excuse that there is so little markup that they can barely feed their families. Everyone claims there CAI creates hp by increasing airflow and lowering the intake temperature, but I have never seen a single temperature or flow measurement on the intakes from manufacturers. At best, this claim is unsubstantiated, and proves that now cost went into the testing aspect of the development of this product. At worse, it is deceiving, and can be construed as fraud and false advertising.

I also don't buy the fact that scale of numbers is costing us more. There are plenty of cars on the road with much smaller production numbers than the Mini, with far cheaper parts. 180,000 Minis are made a year, this is not a small number worldwide. I could list at least 10-20 other cars, that have productions numbers of anywhere between 10% to 50% less than Minis that have a cheaper aftermarket.
I think we give too much credit to a lot of these aftermarket companies on their testing, design, and marketing for these products. For example, does GSR have a lower quality of product than Alta for their intercoolers? I would say no. Yet Alta charges 42% more for their product. Is this because of R&D costs? For development costs? They sell 75 of these a month, so it can't be limits of scale. I would say that a lot of these types of problems are related to the fact that these manufacturers either have inefficiencies (i.e. they pay more for the material, they have to rent equipment...), they are not very knowledgable, so it takes them longer to develop the products (i.e. don't know much about the Mini, so prototype 1-3 don't work because there is a conflict with another part on the Mini), or there is a desire to just charge a premium for the first product on the market.

There are some companies that create a lot of products that are reasonably priced, and not to pick on Alta, so to make it fair, Alta has some great prices and their quality of their pulley is great.

 

I'm new to the MC world but compared to the cost of maintaining and modding my 4 different Porsches over the years, it's alot cheaper over here!

 

I'm on the other end of the spectrum.:smile: Compared to Mustangs the MINI stuff is considerably more expensive.
Course few of my mustangs will hang with many Porches!
We have really fast porches in Arkansas!

 

Borla cat-backs for $575 (for the S) at http://www.titanmotorsports.com/micoex.html.

It's the best I can do on short notice.

Jeff

 

One of the key reasons for the high prices is due to the small market. My business is a leader in the market we sell to and I can tell you that the size of the market is a major player in setting prices, along with material/production costs and competition which are also affected by market size. The bigger the market the higher the production runs which will lower unit costs. We need to see a market size of at least 500,000 cars before the market is large enough to entice more competition and suppliers willing to commit to bigger production runs.

 

hey guys, the talk of how much parts costs hmmmmm...... let me say that my other hobby is racing nitro r/c cars, I actually raced them before I got my MINI and the cost to race those suckers for ONE weekend....65 dollars for tyres, gone by the end of the day. Fuel at 27 bucks a gallon, maybe lasts two days. Foam air filter, 25 bucks. An Actual k&n filter, 30 bucks . Spending on a actual car is so much more easily justifiable, especially to the wifey. Also helps to learn things myself, so I don't have to pay for labor.

 

Are you calling our beloved MINI a toy?

Clo/Wanda

 

Hello to all,

I just wanted to add a few additional details about how items are priced for us and many other true manufacturers. Using the top mount intercooler upgrade that we produce vs. the one from GSR. Our MSRP (not always what dealers will charge as they can set their own price) is $999.99, I understand that the GSR is about $650 USD plus international shipping etc. Setting the shipping aside and just comparing the two coolers( The following example is NOT to bag on the GSR or any other similar product. It is only to show a popular part price differential and why):

1) Ours is a bar and plate core. Not only is it more efficient per square inch than the tube and fin found on the GSR it is significantly more expensive. (Our net cost on the core itself not including the endtanks is about 30%-35% higher than a similarly sized tube and fin.) This equals more power and longer duration before heat soak sets in.

2)Our endtanks are currently formed from 6061 billet aluminum blocks that are then milled to create the shape and internal chambers. The GSR uses multiple stamped and press braked aluminum sheets. Ours has less welding and a higher quality look and feel.

3)Our overall size is larger than the GSR. More power for you, slightly higher cost to produce.

Also, our kit includes a diverter, water sprayer, powdercoated finish, US warranty, etc., etc. If you use our OEM TMIC diverter sprayer MSRP as an example at $169.99 this larger one would be in excess of $229.99. Backing that out of our MSRP would bring the core only price to $769.99. Taking the core difference out would drop another $100 to $669.99 and then using the sheet endtanks would remove another $75-150 each. So for an ALTA product directly comparable to the GSR would be about $599.99-$529.99.

This excerise excludes several other factors and is NOT intended to bag, disparage or otherwise malign the reputation of the GSR product. One of the factors is QTY of items sold versus production of vehicle. If we could anticipate selling hundreds of these monthly worldwide (Similar to our PERRIN intercoolers. Specifically the FMIC for the WRX MSRP is only $1599.99. Check it out at www.perrinperformance.com to see what I mean.) the marginal profit required per unit could be signifacantly reduced to lower the cost to you the customer. (READ: Have BMW make more of these things!) The comparision to headers for many V8 applications is good as is any item for a SUV/TRUCK like a Ford F-150/250/350. Ford sells in excess of 400,000 of those trucks in the US alone each year. Any item that can be sold for that vehicle can be sold for a significantly reduced margin as the volume is so huge!

We constantly strive to produce the highest quality part (Like our pulley.) at a price that is more than reasonable. In some cases an item may appear to be too expensive but if you can attempt to incorporate R&D, prototyping, testing, beta test parts, packaging, shipping, people to do those things, building, machines, marketing, advertising, etc., etc. it is generally easy to see where pricing come from. Final side note material prices (stainless steel, aluminum etc.) have risen as much as 115% in the past 6 months. We have not raised any of our prices on any of our parts. In fact we have LOWERED the price on most all of our items. Also, all of our parts are produced in the USA and no foreign labor or content is contained. We support US companies in an effort to further help OUR economy. Your dollars stay here!

As always please let me know if I can help in any way!

Thanks for listening.

Adam
ALTA Performance
503-643-4677 xt 203
adam@altaminiperformance.com
www.altaminiperformance.com

 

ha try modding a '96 a4... talk about expensive. they only made the 2.8 v6 for a year or two so finding upgrades for it was near impossible, and when i did, super expensive. i was astonished to see how much stuff there is available for minis... a bit expensive, yes, but certainly better than nothing at all!christina.

 

I know that steel has gone wwwaaaaaayyyyy up in the past few months.

I placed an order on March, 28th and paid $.94 per foot and on April 1st it was $2.12 per foot IF YOU CAN FIND IT.

All items made of metal are going UP!!

Earl

 

simple answer.....LACK OF COMPETITION. Just look at the cable industry I'm going satellite ASAP

 

bottom line...tiny market, lots of start ups...these guys do have to eat y'know.....want cheap mods......buy a Camaro buy stuff from JC Whitney or the coolest speed shop in the universe...Summit....sheeesh I loooove going there.....they don't have diddly for a Mini though......I did buy my racing seat there (100 bucks plus 50 for the cover)......NICE CANDY STORE......NO CANDY THAT I CAN BUY

 

The GSR though has posted data showing their intercooler is more efficient though.

 

agreed. Alta, the description of your design and mfg process would seem to indicate better efficiency (and more power), but the gsr unit has provided numbers that show that theirs is more efficient (despite the "shortcomings").

Perhaps a thorough comparison test by either mfg would be in order? Or you could even have a willing independent member do the testing for you (both mfg send their units to a member, and someone provide the member with necessary guages). Dunno how likely this would be, but one can hope.

 

Alta,

Thanks for your info. That information is always great from a manufacturer. But I agree with everyone else, and is another reason I complain about costs. You say it is more efficient, but no numbers. It is great to say that $300 more of products will make it efficient, but without efficiency numbers it is impossible to say. A company like GSR indicates independent testing numbers showing better efficiency than a couple of customers who have bought Alta units. It would be great if Alta showed those numbers. You either must have them as part of your development work to pick the best size/materials.... If you don't have them, then it confirms the issues that I have had with many manufacturers either never posting numbers or saying that they have no numbers. Without numbers (real numbers, not hp on a dyno), than these manufacturers are wasting our money saying that R&D work is what consumes the price. I am afraid many of the manufacturers do not calculate any numbers and are wasting time/money at guessing what makes a good product, based off of previous experience. And developing it based off of what sounds good.

 

HELL NO! I drive mine the same way though. The MINI is a Racing MACHINE...... even if not all of us drive them that way.