I have an '04 MC with the small 175/65/15 all seasons ( non run-flats)

if you are going to replace just 2 tires, should the better tires , ie the new ones, be on the front since those are the driving wheels, or should the better ones be on the rear as this would minimize oversteer (and this leaves the more worn out tires being on the front having the engine weight on them to help offset the less traction of having less tread).



I always follow the better tires on the rear philosophy, as BMW at one point preferred that I think, and also Michelin prefers that too .... but my local tire place said always leave the better tires on the front esp in a front wheel drive ...thoughts?

 

From a safety stand point, having better tires in the rear would be safer. Its better to understeer than to oversteer. Also, newer tires are more hydroplane-resistant. Its best to have the front hydroplane, instead of than the rears.

Read this: http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tirete...%7C6698650813&

 

thanks ....I am vindicated ! ..the tire place locally and the garage locally that works on many MINI's both were emphatic that better tires should be on the front ...... I will stay with betters on the rear


btw, Michelin does have a good demonstration video of a this:

 

Perhaps so if you like to drive your car like you stole it. If you drive it like most people do the question to ask is: would you rather have a blow out on the front or the rear?

 

I'd be looking for a new tire shop.

 

I'm in the car service business and I, like your tire shop, recommend installing new tire onto the front. The reason is, with the best tires on the front you will have better control and traction in inclimate weather. If you are concerned with the rear of the vehicle hydroplaning or causing too much oversteer then perhaps its time to replace those tires as well. I follow this philosophy myself and have done so for 10 years. I live in Iowa and we get plenty of snow. Perhaps not as much as some of the eastern states, but enough to test this theroy.

Also along the lines with what whaap said, if you have a tire low on tread and it blows out, you'll want that tire on the rear. If its on the front, you'll lose all control. Not a good scenario to be in

 

That sounds intuitively plausible, but the arguments for new tires in rear are equally convincing. We need to check with people who have done real testing with new tires in front vs rear, in actual cars. How about the top 4 tire manufacturers?

Michelin (http://www.michelinman.com/mediabin/...lin_042009.pdf):
If only two tires are being replaced, the two newer tires need to be installed on the rear axle, regardless of vehicle drive type.

Bridgestone/Firestone -- I can't find a recommendation, but these comments about winter tires illustrate which end they think should have better traction (http://www.tiresafety.com/images/Tir...t%20Manual.pdf):
If winter tires are applied to the front axle of any vehicle, they must also be installed on the rear. Do not apply winter tires to only the front axle - this applies to all passenger cars and light trucks, including front wheel drive, 4x4 and all-wheel drive vehicles. If winter tires are installed on the rear axle of any vehicle, it is recommended (but not required) that they also be installed on the front axle.

Goodyear (http://www.goodyear.com/en-US/servic...ntenance-guide):
When installing only two tires, fit the tires with the deepest tread depth on the rear axle.

Continental (http://www.continental-tires.com/www...nd-mixing.html):
If only one axle set of tires is replaced, then it is recommended to install the newest tires on the rear axle.

I challenge you to find any tire manufacturer that recommends installing 2 new tires in the front.

 

Instead of asking where to put on the new tires, put it a different way. If you didn't have two dimes to rub together and you had to run with two very worn out tires, would you want them on the front or back? No matter what the tire manufacturers might say, I would do what ever it took not to have a front tire blow out.

 

Very informative — thank you for the link!

 

If the tyres you are not replacing are so worn that you're worried about traction/grip differences across axles, shouldn't you replace the other two as well? Tire Rack has your size from $67 each. Not quite the price of a cup of coffee, but what price your safety?

 

I agree with this point. Unless you're trying to be a hoonigan and the tires still have decent tread on the rear I'd leave them. Your front tires will wear faster due to the car being front wheel drive and have more load placed on them. If you place worn tires there, they will only wear that much faster and you'll need tire that much sooner. I avoid this whole issue by replacing all 4 tires at once. Always have. But I realize others may prefer 2 at a time.

 

+1,000,000

 

4 of a kind always beats a pair. Best 2 tires on the rear.

 

If I were in a situation where my tires were so worn that I was having to actually make a decision as to which axle it would be better to have a plausibly imminent blowout on and I couldn't afford to replace all four tires, I would park the car and find other means of transportation. But then, I prefer to be somewhat responsible regarding my own life and the lives of other motorists.

 

Yes, but there are many motorists that use our road that don't display the same level of common sense.

 

No question, I'd put the worn tires in the front. If I exit off the freeway onto a cloverleaf in wet weather, I'd want the better tires in the rear.

You keep bringing up blowouts, but what causes blowouts? Rarely because of worn tires. They would have to be completely bald and the tire was already starting to fail. Blowouts are typically caused by low pressure and road hazards, not by amount of tread wear.
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tirete....jsp?techid=13

 

[I'm not recommending anything here, I'm just stating what I have done in the past...]
What I have always done until recently on both classic Minis and MINIs was to replace the fronts alone until the rear wear was at the point where I needed to replace them. At that point I replaced the rears independently of the fronts. I never bothered with rotations until recently, when I do rotate them when I swap winters and summers. I used to do enough mileage that I usually ate the fronts before it was rotation time anyway...

 

The lawyers tell you "best on the back" and if you just aim the car (while drinking your coffee)...it works best (from a safety point of view)..tests prove this.
But if you are a driver....and know what you have...
It can be nice to have more tread on the front in the snow to GET YOU MOVING if you are then smart enough to go slow...if you drive on the "edge"you will spin out....but by putting the newer on the front...you might get over that hill...or up the driveway....and the newer fronts may wear out about when the rears do....
So 4 new next time...and regular rotations to prevent issues in the future.....

 

The white car is shown continuously correcting for throttle-induced oversteer while driving around cones. The driver of the blue car driving around a steady radius makes zero attempt at correction of the spin until the car has rotated 180 degrees. Put the tires anywhere you want but this is a demonstration of producing a desired result.

 

Assuming you are correct that the video is being gamed, what desired result are you claiming Michelin is trying to obtain? What benefit is it to them to demonstrate it is best to put the better tires in the rear? Why do you think they would generate a video to support an unsafe condition knowing it was an unsafe condition? Why would the other tire manufacturers reach the same conclusion?

 

They are "demonstrating" their belief that is safer for the average driver to have the new tires fitted to the rear. I made no claim that they were promoting an unsafe condition.

 

Listen to Alex, this topic has been discussed many times before.

If your tread depth is down to or close to 4/32" on a tire it really needs to be replaced if you plan to drive your vehicle safely on public roads. You can never tell when it will rain even in a relatively dry climate.

Never mind getting a blow out, you tires should be good enough not to let that be a factor/risk.

In the event of hydroplaning you want the better/new tires on the rear so that if you are driving too fast for the conditions you can rely on getting understeer and not oversteer. To control understeer you just need to slow down, to control oversteer is not so easy and you are much higher risk of loosing control.

If having enough traction on the front is important then replace all four tires.

Any respectable tire shop will always know to require installing the new tires on the rear axle.

 

So far, the entire debate has been about whether it is "safer" and "easier" for an _average_ driver to recover from UNDER-steer than OVER-steer.
Thus the recommendation to go with whatever tire configuration it takes to err on the side of inducing UNDER-steer (more tread in the back).

While generally true, this argument absconds away with proper analysis of vehicle dynamics and weight transfer in wet conditions. That would require too much time and assume too much intellegence and skill on behalf of the _average_ driver. *sigh*.

a

 

If you are highly skilled and experienced driving in wet or even cold or snow conditions and you know how to correct for less than optimal steering whether it is understeer or oversteer then you can put your new tires on where ever you want but you will need to adjust your driving.

When you have four new tires it's always the best situation to be in.

When you are not the only driver for your MINI, being conservative and safer is a sound strategy. Do you really think the average driver can make the necessary corrections to stay in control once they start oversteering?

So choose what you will but in my mind there is NO debate. When in doubt, be safe.

 

At the expense of upsetting the PC crowd - I always put the best tires upfront on FWD cars (on rear axle on RWD cars).

Makes PERFECT sense to me from all of the following perspectives:
1). Traction maximization to the driven wheels
2). Minimizing hydroplaning probability when going straight (98% of driving) - best tires clear the path, worse tires on rear axle follow the cleared track
3). Ability to "save" the car if anything goes wrong (see #1)
4). Tire wear equalization

The only logical downside is increased probability of rear hydroplaning during turns, so I slow way down for those.

YMMV,
a