Hi There Everyone- I'm a new, old guy here,

I'm an 'ole fighter pilot and like to see instruments/gauges telling me what's going on. When I bought this little beauty ('07s, auto) I found it completely void of most info, both in the cockpit and in the owners manual, of things I hold dear to my heart-
Little things like coolant temp, oil temp, transmission oil temp (I have the 6 sp Auto), volts, oil pressure, etc. I also have a motorhome (MH), and I put a scan Gauge II into it about 3 years ago. That little beauty gives me much relief in the MH in those areas- and in some parameters I not really interested in- speed, tach, gallons used, gallons left, etc, etc.

So when I purchased this little hummer I thought I needed to see those parameters on a screen, so I added a new Scan Gauge II- I didn't know my coolant temp would average about 225f. The tranny also runs at around 225f. The engine operating temp is about one degree less-

My motor home pulls 22,000+ lbs around at 62-65 mph. It has an 8.1 litter, 340hp gas engine. It's coolant runs at 195f (occassionally up to 207f on hills) and the tranny runs around 135-150f.

What's up with my little hot rod? Are this normal readings, and I think they probably are- because that's why Mini gives me none of this info-

We, the bride following me behind the MH (I was pulling my "toad", a Chevy Malibu), got 37.5 mpg on the trip following me from Maine to North Carolina-

Oh, the Scan Gauge folks haven't broken the code yet for the oil pressure.

I have more questions coming on adding a cruise control- and yes, I have read some threads about that subject here on this forum.

Cheers,

 

Yup 225 sounds about right, the S and JCW models will actually run at 180F while in sport mode. I have a water temp and boost aftermarket gauges and I was worried at first too when I saw what my car was running at

 

Yes, that's what they run, except for the 2013 JCW and GP2, which run at 90C or 195 F. We have a 2011 R55 MCS with the JCW gauges in it. She runs at 225F except when you accelerate or load the engine, then it reverts to 195F briefly, then back to 225F at steady state running. Also have 2013 R56 JCW which runs at 195F no matter the load or speed. The sport mode trick doesn't seem to work on our MCS.

 

A trick to force full cooling (90 C) is A/C max fan, full cold. The engine only does a 5 minute cool down of the turbo after shutdown so anything more than 5 mins of blasting cold air around is better than that I guess.

 

Another point of reference...my '07 base model typically runs at 222.8 degrees as measured by an Ultra Gauge with occasional bumps up to 226.

 

Personally while these temps are the new norm.. I think they run to hot.. But of course this is IMO.. MINI has been the first car ive owned that had temps this high.. Im not a fan at all of having temps this high..

 

Higher coolant temp mean less heat is rejected through the radiator which means engine efficiency is higher. This is why newer engines are being run at higher operating temps.

 

Just change fluids frequently and enjoy the ride

 

I didn't know that. Mechanically speaking, what does the sport mode do that actually reduces engine temperature by 45 degrees? Assuming your statement is accurate, why shouldn't we run sport mode all the time?

 

As far as I've read/heard when hitting the sport button it forces the thermostat open thus lowering the temp (this also happens when you crank the AC all the way up). Somehow (I have no idea why) cars run more fuel efficient at higher temps which would be a good reason to stay off the sport button, I've never actually tested this but since I have the gauge I could see what mpgs I can get with sport mode on/off. Side note, I have a 2012 cooper s and my sport mode didn't drop my temp until after I recently had my ECU updated so not all minis do this

 

Just pushing the sport button on a 2012 doesn't automatically drop temps. You have to get on the turbo a bit (although just cruising at 65mph for a while does it also) or blast the AC. IIRC, the 2013 S drops temp just by pressing the sport button and the 2013 JCW always runs at 90-95C (sport or no sport).

As far as running more fuel efficient, if you have an auto then the mpg does drop in sport mode due to the tranny holding lower gears longer and downshifting sooner. And there is that spit of gas that causes pop/gurgle wasting a penny here and there. BUT supposedly you get a couple more hp from running cooler than 105C so it's a tradeoff. I can only stand sport mode in city driving but I have an auto. Manual tranny drivers like it on all the time it seems for the throttle mapping.

 

I love the backfire in sport mode and the quicker throttle response. But , I hate that the rpms drop slower when upshifting. Also, I have noted lower gas mileage on trips.

 

Yah, sport mode is just that, the opposite from 'economy'. I've got the auto and when the revs stay high (prob to keep the turbo spooled?), I noticed that if I take my foot off the gas the revs still stay up but the realtime mpg goes to 99.9. How is that possible

 

Thanks all---

Looks like I'm running "par for the course" as far as 225f degrees are concerned.

I've off on another tangent now- the "intake valve carbon build up" problem on my year Mini S ('07).

I've looked for a contact email address to contact either the Mini or BMW folks to no avail. I want them to enlighten me as to why all those wonderful German engineers in Munich haven't sorted out a solution to this problem. Why I gotta use "crushed walnut shells" to clean up my aluminum intake valve manifold chambers, and intake valves? With 23k miles on my Mini I'm just about in the zone for problems. I'm capable of doing the blasting myself, but what's the fix?
Yes, I've read many threads here on this forum, and solutions. They all involve messing with the PCV (positive crankcase ventilation) system- ugh!

 

First there is NO fix. I have known quite a few people that run OCC on their MCS sealing up the throttle body PCV hose and installing an OCC inline with the turbo side PCV hose, and those same people still have carbon in the runners and on the valves.

I have just accepted the fact that I will need to get the walnut blasting done every 20k miles, prices have come way down. I have found a place that only charges $350 for walnut blasting.

 

Where?

 

There is no fix and other car makes with direct injected engines are experiencing similar problems. I read one Audi post where owner had a dyno test run before and after walnut shell blasting and noted a 40 HP increase after cleaning.

I have installed an oil catch can and blocked off rear PCV hose but I fully expect cleaning will be needed again.

I suspect that our MINIs may be worse than some other makes due to the variable valve timing that provides MINIs with such a nice fat torque curve.

 

Like you I am off on this intake carbon problem. I have 2 MINI's. A 2011 R55 S with an N-18 engine, and a 2013 R56 JCW, also with an N-18 engine. I might add the only JCW with the N-18 engine.

I think BMW is headed in the right direction with the N-18 Valvetronic Dual Vanos engines. First a little basic engine theory. The intake valve opens a few degrees before top dead center at the end of the exhaust stroke, and the exhaust valve closes a few degrees after top dead center. Also known as the overlap cycle. During this overlap cycle some exhaust gases are introduced into the combustion chamber through the intake valves. To me this is the major contributor to carbon on the back of the intake valves.

Now, the Valvetronic system controls the lift on the intake valves depending on the input to the DME from the accelerator pedal. At idle the intakes are only open about .008 of and inch, and varies throughout the rpm range. This very much minimizes the exhaust gas flow through the intake valves at idle. Whereas the N-14 engines have full intake valve lift at all RPM's allowing more exhaust flow past the intake valves.

The double vanos system also comes into play here too. The cams are retarded at low speed, and then advanced at mid speed resulting in what is called internal EGR, or exhaust gas circulation for emission and mileage purposes. Then retard again under full power.

When the intake lift is small the duration of the valve opening is much smaller, and thus less overlap and EGR. That is why I think the N-18 engines will have less carbon buildup on the intakes than the N-14 engines. Also running the engine temps at 225F most of the time can't help either. The 2013 JCW, and GP2 engines only run no higher than 195F as set by the DME.

So, we will see what happens as the N-18 engines out there hit higher mileages.

 

Actually, if I understand valve overlap correctly, the brief period during which both valves are open doesn't feed exhaust gases back into the combustion chamber. The velocity of the exhaust gas being pumped out tends to create a low pressure zone behind each pulse, and that "vacuum" then helps draw in a fresh intake charge. You may be thinking of the crankcase gases that are drawn in with the intake air thanks to the PCV.

Spridget

 

1guru2-

Thanks for your input on the carbon build up issue. I really appreciate you passing on your knowledge, and experience that you have in this area.

We're getting off the topic of this thread slightly, but maybe the site moderators will permit a slight deviation since, as you indicate, some engine operating temperature might come into play here.

I'm an old pilot. I've been flying all sorts of aircraft for many years- Both military and in general aviation. I've flown several aircraft with Lycoming engines and turbo chargers. I have never heard of, or never have seen a carbon build up issue in these aircraft engines. I, of course, know the vast difference's in the operating sphere of these engines, and the purposes of these devices.
If I can digress for a moment- I even recall the old P&W 4360 engine. It had a supercharger at first and later models had twin turbo chargers AND still retrained the supercharger. I had over 1100 hrs in the old KC-97 Tankers as a Navigator. God, what a nightmare engine. 28 cylinders, 56 spark plugs and 3000 hp- The later versions were 3500 hp. The engine overhaul cycle, for the civilian version (Boeing) B-377 aircraft was a mere 600 hours. Carbon build up was never an issue, but EPA didn't exist in those days- and no PCV valves. They used a tremendous amount of oil, as well as gasoline 115-145 octane.

Back to today's business at hand. I didn't know that BMW has made a change to the newer engines, the Mini's that you own, ie: operating at 195 degrees. Is this controlled by a thermostat? Pardon my ignorance but what is a DME? A computer? To a layman, and pilot (me), that means "distance measuring equipment"- . if so, can my "DME" be reprogramed to the same lower operating temps. Or am I destined to carry an OCC "Oil Catch Can" around with me, forever? I like the 195 f operating range- where almost every vehicle I have owned, or now own, operates.

Hey, thanks a lot to all the inputs you folks are making.

I don't think I'll be making "power slides" any time soon to test out new versions of the Mini's in the near future- as some folks here do on these forum discussions. I always thought the terms "slips and slides" were aviation terms-

I also remember that Cadillac fooled around with a form of mechanical valve timing, that used either 8, 6, or 4 cylinders depending on operating parameters, ie speed (load) and rpm. That failed miserably and they abandoned that idea as many owners called their cars the 7-5-3 version- . Of course that was before Computers- and we still had Distruibutors.

 

Correctamundo! That has been one of the advantages of "high performance" camshafts for many years.

 

Looks like I found an old friend here. From 1958 to 1962 I was an engine mechanic on the R-4360-59B engines on the KC-97G's at Malmstrom AFB MT. Yes they had just one turbo, but also an internal l engine driven blower too. They ran max power at 60 in HG.

Back to business. DME stands for Digital Motor Electronics, a BMW term. Others call them ECU or engine control units. Even though the 4360's were not direct injection I still remember seeing carbon on the backside of the intake valves. We were allowed to "stake" the valves to remove the carbon by striking the valves with a hammer if they leaked during compression checks. Bye the way B-29's had a mechanical direct injection system and turbos, and carbon on the intake valves.

As I stated earlier the 2013 JCW's and GP2's are the only N-18's that run at 90C or 194 F. We'll see as time goes on how this may make a difference in carbon buildup!

 

Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR)

Exhaust Gas Recirculation is a proven technique to reduce fuel consumption and emission. It does that by recirculating some of the exhaust gas back to the combustion chamber. Thus the effective engine displacement is reduced and drink less fuel. Inevitably, you may say this also reduce power output, so why not select higher gear and slow down the engine to obtain the same result ?
The answer is: not every one like this kind of cruising. If you drive in a hurry, you don’t like to reduce the engine speed as you want to accelerate as soon as overtaking opportunity comes. If you drive in traffic, which calls for intermittent acceleration and deceleration, you are not likely to select the 4th and 5th gear too. A considerable large portion of our daily driving is spent on the "low gear, high rev" pattern which does not optimize fuel consumption. This makes EGR worthy.

EGR recirculate some of the exhaust gas (probably up to 10%) back to the inlet valve via a recirculation pipe. The amount is determined by engine ECU and controlled by a valve at the recirculation pipe. When the ECU believes the engine is running at light load, it directs the exhaust gas back to the combustion chamber. As the exhaust gas is largely non-ignitable and takes no part in the combustion process, the fuel injection can emit less fuel without worrying failure combustion. As a result, the engine still run at roughly the same speed but power output, fuel consumption and emission are all reduced.

Yet this is only half of the story. Another large portion of the fuel and emission saved is contributed by the reduction of pumping loss. Pumping loss is the power used to pump the fresh air into the cylinder and pump the exhaust gas out, of course the "pump" is the piston. To reduce the power wasted in pumping in fresh air, we can pressurised the input air, that is, using turbocharger, or alternatively add some high-pressure, speedy gas into the input stream. In our case of EGR such gas is the exhaust gas.

To our environment, apart from the emission reduced via consuming less fuel, EGR also reduces NOx emission. How ? as the amount of combustible gas is reduced, temperature in combustion chamber is also reduced. Because NOx generates at high temperature, NOx emission is also reduced.

I took this from a BMW article. There is no vacuum in our engines, that is why we have a vacuum pump to run the brake booster. Even if we ran the PCV tube to atmosphere like we did in the 50's I think you would see carbon on the back of the valves due to the overlap cycle. Just my opinion.

 

Thanks 1guru2 - Nice to meet ya--

Thanks for the DME explanation- I needed that. I know ECU's.

I didn't "turn wrenches" as you did back in the "old days". One of my good friends here in Gulfport, MS at the Seabee Base RV park, did just that- all his career. He knows all about those old 4360's. I'll ask him about "staking" the intake valves to remove carbon.

At the very end of thread #18, he (st1guru2) states the DME (computer) sets the 195 f degree temperature (in the newer model Mini's). No thermostat involved in this process?

As others have stated here- is the higher, by 20 degrees, EOT (engine operating temperature) having an effect on this intake valve carbon build up problem? I know that heat can "coke" the turbo bearings but I haven't read much about turbo failures here yet- but I'm a new guy. And, I know we have the cooilng fan that runs after shutdown for exactly that purpose.

I do know in the piston engine airplanes I've flown, it was mandatoty to run in idle for at least five minutes before engine shutdown. Taxi time usually took care of this requirement.

Cheers-

 

Why the N14/N18 building up carbon?

The old R53 engines have the indirect injection system meaning the injectors are placed above the valves and along the intake track.

With that said the fuel being sprayed always cleans the valves and intake track.

With the direct injection the the injectors are place past the valves and intake track.

Hope that helps.

As far as the high temp thats like when my fan start kicking in with my R53 engine. If i own these cars i would hook up a gauge just to verify the accuracy of the temp.