I need to get a better front brake pad for autocrossing. At first I was fine but I am getting more on the brakes and with the Dunlop ZII tires at the end of the course I have had a few times where the brakes were not as effective.

So... Can I interchange brake pads between events? I am thinking Hawk HP Plus or Carbotech AX6 for the front and just keep the back stock. I know for sure that Carbotech says their pads can't be used on a rotor that has had an iron based brake pad, is it the same for other pads?

The biggest reason I want to interchange is so I can still use my 3 year 36/month maintenance coming up. I have 10,000 miles and the computer says the fronts need to be changed in 14,000, which I am sure will end up sooner than that.

 

For autocross purposes a HP+ would be a little overkill and would squeal like mad on the street. They're actually kind of a crappy pad IMO but they're cheap and widely available so there is that. I would argue that you should be able to fairly easily find a pad that works as a DD pad and an auto-x pad. We run the EBC yellowstuff pads and they hold up great at the auto-x (even with the stupid EDLC heating them up) and they're fine on the street even during the winter. We get a few squeaks every now and then but nothing major.

Many pad manufacturers will tell you to swap rotors when you swap pads and they're partially right. You do run the chance of uneven pad deposits if you mix pad compounds. I've not had it be an issue (yet) but I bed my pads in really well when swapping them on which I think helps.

Why bother with replacing the crap stock pads for more crap stock pads? The aftermarket pads will last longer, dust less, and make less noise. We got tired of taking the mini to the dealer every time the stock pads started squealing from auto-x and just swapped to ebc yellowstuff pads. Haven't had to mess with the brakes since. My time is too valuable to keep taking the mini to the dealer for brake pad wear...

 

I agree about the time to go to the dealer. If I switch to different pads and need new rotors will they still replace the rotors?

 

Hard to say for certain but my guess would be no

EDIT: Keep in mind that the JCW rotors aren't particularly thick so you will have to replace the rotors more often than on other cars.

 

Wow. I must not be using the brakes hard enough... that's why no jacket I guess...

A word on OEM brakes...

I've run the R53 for a decade, and the R56 for a half-dozen events (including an Evo school, which is hot lapping in some cases and ALWAYS has a hard braking area for practice). Both cars have run Hoosiers - the R53 for two years, and the R56 for the school and five events with course lengths of 60-70 seconds.

I've seen 'em smoke a bit a few times, but that is very rare. I've seen the rotors with a lovely shade of blue once or twice which faded as they cooled.

I have NEVER felt anything but outstanding brake performance however. Not once.

The R56 is slightly better than the Works car, but both were outstanding. I do not brake into anti-lock mode of course unless I have miscalculated but by God I do drive the heck out of a Mini.

So I just wonder why your experience is so different? With respect I'd suggest a hard look at the whole system might not be a waste of time?

I do not debate pad choice of course - I have no experience other than OEM! :-)

Kind regards,

Charlie

 

Hawk pads are designed to be interchangeable.

For instance, drive an HPS to the track, switch to Hawk blue 9012.

You should replace your street pads before you leave. I did this exact swap, when I still had the time to lap at Gingerman Raceway once a week.

Hawk 9012 Blue, by the way are extremely rough on wheels and paint, I recommend hitting the pressure wash after the track. I also hand washed the car the next day. My wheels and paint never paid a price.

 

Charlie your Hoosiers might be the biggest difference between your experiences and mine. With the street tires and the EDLC the e-diff does a pretty good job of heating up the brakes trying to mitigate wheelspin. Also, I have to slow down a lot longer coming up to corners than you do. I've driven a DS mini and there was almost no braking involved and the braking zones were also super compressed/short. These cars really slow the F down on hoosiers. There is also very little wheelspin in a DS mini as the tires provide plenty of grip so the inside tire doesn't come loose. Gotta love r-comps Oh and our car is pretty much always dual-driven which doesn't help. We would only get pad fade during really hot events and only on the stock pads.

Then again maybe that's why you're fast. Braking less is something I've been working on. Who needs brakes right?

 

You know, I bet the e-diff is the reason I have heated up my brakes the last two autocrosses. There was one time at the end of the run where I was very hard on the brakes and it seemed to hardly even be able to get into the ABS. I was standing on the brakes harder than I have ever done so and it just felt like I was pushing against a wall but no change in braking.

 

Yep that would be brake fade

 

Obviously I need to get a different pad then for my next event. Would the Hawk HPS be a good choice and can I simply take light sand paper to remove the old pad material?

 

The e-diff could be a factor. I ran STX rules on the R53 from '06 through '12, but had a Quaife.

The R56 has run only twice on R1R rubber, and as this is a Justa it would not work the e-diff nearly as hard as a Cooper S.

Hmmm....

 

Yes, it would be Hawk's best suited for autocross. What are you using now for pads? An actual turning of the rotors would be best. This surface 's raw state would allow for quicker brake bed-in. You don't have to remove much if your rotors are in good shape.

You could use sandpaper. Your results may be delayed in full stopping power.

 

I have had zero luck with any Hawk pad, I do like the Carbotech pads for AutoX and Lapping days on my R56.

Lately I have been doing mild lapping days on EBC Reds, but I don't brake much on the track, just go fast and be smooth. Never into the panic locks I see many folks do when they overcook a turn or a pylon.

Don

 

Il Maestro.

Gli auguri,

Carlos

 

The benefit of Carbotech pads is that you can interchange all of their pads once you start to use them without turning the rotors. For instance, you use AX6's or Bobcat's daily. You can then swap out to any of their track pads when you get to the track and back to the street pads when you leave. All without ever worrying about your rotors. It's an awesome feature of the brand.

That's why I bought them initially. Too bad I let go of my Mini before I could use those track pads.

Good luck.

aaron