R50/53 what size wheels will give better handling
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2nd Gear
Joined: May 2013
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what size wheels will give better handling
I have a mini cooper s with the stock 17" wheels on it Would I have better time cornering with 17" wheels or if I went to 16s with a wider tire, cant we go up to 9" wide with 16s?
"Better" is a big subjective, but a lighter tire rim combo will make the car feel more "chuckable" or playful...I have found that a lighter rim and tire combo makes the car feel more lively...narrower if you do that too can decrease grip....but I have found in a non tracked daily driver, 16 are a good choice. ....have played with 15 on a gen1 (no bbk), and have mixed feelings. Simple fact is a wide heavy rim makes the car feel more stable at high speed...has a bit more ultimate grip...but the 16 is more fun...less like a pondering heavy car, and more like a mini should be imo. Lighter rims also will give you better acceleration and mpg!!
6th Gear
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 2,486
Likes: 7
From: Orcutt, CA
A while back Grassroots Motorsports did some handling testing with different size wheels and different profile tires. The 17" was the best for handling. However, if you go with a 16 and a low profile tire (smaller overall diameter than 17) we will get a little faster acceleration.
Here is a link to the article:
http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/articles/speed-holes/
One problem with the test was that the 16 had narrower tires than the 17.
Here is a link to the article:
http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/articles/speed-holes/
One problem with the test was that the 16 had narrower tires than the 17.
Last edited by quikmni; May 31, 2013 at 11:34 AM.
5th Gear
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,034
Likes: 72
Assuming they are both the same rolling diameter, 17 inch tires will have a shorter (and stiffer) sidewall, so the handling will tend to feel sharper. 16 inch tires have a slightly taller sidewall, and will generally yield a more compliant ride (especially important if you have the sport suspension or runflat tires). As mentioned above, the idea of "better" is purely subjective. You should go to your dealer and test drive two similarly optioned cars - one with 16s and one with 17s to feel the difference.
6th Gear
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 3,790
Likes: 10
From: Kansas City
"Handling" is such a subjective term.....that said, there's autocross handling, road course handling, and basic street handling. Assuming you're talking about street handling you have to balance the turn in response and ultimate grip with weather (rain, snow, cold temps) and real world road conditions like potholes and such as well as fitment issues (clearance over the brakes and tire/fender interferance. I run 17" Conti all seasons, my son runs 18" summer only tires on his '04 JCW with sport suspension and hates the ride.
If 16's will clear your brakes and not cause tire interferance, they may give you a crisper turn in, but you have to be careful what tires you fit, as different compounds and sizes will feel completely different too.
There's no one answer that's right for all conditions, so you have to go with what works for what you want to do.
If 16's will clear your brakes and not cause tire interferance, they may give you a crisper turn in, but you have to be careful what tires you fit, as different compounds and sizes will feel completely different too.
There's no one answer that's right for all conditions, so you have to go with what works for what you want to do.
Thread Starter
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2nd Gear
Joined: May 2013
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well I have the stock 17s and I am looking around at new wheels, some I like are 16s and some are 17s but I plan on doing quite a few autocross events and mountain runs so handling is my main concern
All I can tell you is when I switched from my heavy 17" OEM wheels and all-season tires to lightweight 17" Enkei RPF1 wheels and Pilot SS tires the difference was remarkable. Braking takes noticably less force on the pedal, acceleration feels a little peppier, and of course sticky tires make an enormous difference.
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All I can tell you is when I switched from my heavy 17" OEM wheels and all-season tires to lightweight 17" Enkei RPF1 wheels and Pilot SS tires the difference was remarkable. Braking takes noticably less force on the pedal, acceleration feels a little peppier, and of course sticky tires make an enormous difference.
As we all know, everyone defines better handling differently.
For my 2011 Cooper S Sport Package Hatch with JCW tuning kit ++, I wanted less wheel spin and better traction in the corners.
I dumped the stock tires for 225 45 17 Potenza S-04 pole positions:
1. They filled the wheel wells nicely (I got ask how much I lowered the car a lot)
2. Corrected the speedo to true speed (per my gps)
3. Improved the ride by 10 fold (No worries about bending rims in potholes)
3. Improved highway mileage by 3 MPG (same in the city)
4. Corners like being on rails (I can't get the stability control light to come one in corners)
5. No more wheel spin in first or second gear (It just hooks up and go’s, a much faster hole shot even with the taller tires)
6. They fit on my 17 X 7 stock R111 Black Star Bullet Rims (made by BBS)
The specs differences:
New Tires
S-04 Poles (Not Run Flat)
225/45/17
Weight 25 LBS.
Section Width 8.9
Tread Width 8.1
Overall Diameter 25
Revs per Mile 835
Stock Tires
Conti Sport Contact 3 (Run Flat)
Weight 21 LBS.
Section Width 8.4
Tread Width 7.4
Overall Diameter 24.3
Revs per Mile 856
The contact patch difference is huge at a 27.24% increase, 2.88% due to diameter and 9.46% due to width. I was concerned about the effect of the extra 4 lbs. on travel response, but on washboard roads in the corners it does not side skip at all anymore. The bottom line, I think the tire size is just a better fit for the R56 Turbo overall.
For my 2011 Cooper S Sport Package Hatch with JCW tuning kit ++, I wanted less wheel spin and better traction in the corners.
I dumped the stock tires for 225 45 17 Potenza S-04 pole positions:
1. They filled the wheel wells nicely (I got ask how much I lowered the car a lot)
2. Corrected the speedo to true speed (per my gps)
3. Improved the ride by 10 fold (No worries about bending rims in potholes)
3. Improved highway mileage by 3 MPG (same in the city)
4. Corners like being on rails (I can't get the stability control light to come one in corners)
5. No more wheel spin in first or second gear (It just hooks up and go’s, a much faster hole shot even with the taller tires)
6. They fit on my 17 X 7 stock R111 Black Star Bullet Rims (made by BBS)
The specs differences:
New Tires
S-04 Poles (Not Run Flat)
225/45/17
Weight 25 LBS.
Section Width 8.9
Tread Width 8.1
Overall Diameter 25
Revs per Mile 835
Stock Tires
Conti Sport Contact 3 (Run Flat)
Weight 21 LBS.
Section Width 8.4
Tread Width 7.4
Overall Diameter 24.3
Revs per Mile 856
The contact patch difference is huge at a 27.24% increase, 2.88% due to diameter and 9.46% due to width. I was concerned about the effect of the extra 4 lbs. on travel response, but on washboard roads in the corners it does not side skip at all anymore. The bottom line, I think the tire size is just a better fit for the R56 Turbo overall.
Last edited by HorseWithNoName; Jan 10, 2014 at 02:51 PM.
5th Gear
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 707
Likes: 5
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/FONT]
[SIZE=3][FONT=Calibri]As we all know, everyone defines better handling differently.[/FONT][/SIZE]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/FONT]
[SIZE=3][FONT=Calibri]For my 2011 Cooper S Sport Package Hatch with JCW tuning kit++, I wanted less traction light time (wheel spin) in and wanted better tractionin the corners. I dumped the stock tiresand when with 225 45 17 Potenza S-04 pole positions:[/FONT][/SIZE]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3]1.[/SIZE][/FONT] [SIZE=3][FONT=Calibri]They filled the wheel wells nicely (I get askhow much I lowered the car a lot) [/FONT][/SIZE]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3]2.[/SIZE][/FONT] [SIZE=3][FONT=Calibri]Corrected the speedo to true speed (per my gps) [/FONT][/SIZE]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3]3.[/SIZE][/FONT] [SIZE=3][FONT=Calibri]Improved the ride by 10 fold (No worries aboutbending rims in potholes) [/FONT][/SIZE]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3]4.[/SIZE][/FONT] [SIZE=3][FONT=Calibri]Improved highway mileage by 3 MPG (same in thecity) [/FONT][/SIZE]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3]5.[/SIZE][/FONT] [SIZE=3][FONT=Calibri]Corners like being on rails (I can’t make thestability control light come one in corners)[/FONT][/SIZE]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3]6.[/SIZE][/FONT] [SIZE=3][FONT=Calibri]No more wheel spin in first or second gear (Itjust hooks up and go’s, a much faster hole shot)[/FONT][/SIZE]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3]7.[/SIZE][/FONT] [SIZE=3][FONT=Calibri]They fit on my 17 X 7 stock R111 Black StarBullet Rims just fine[/FONT][/SIZE]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/FONT]
[SIZE=3][FONT=Calibri]The specs differences:[/FONT][/SIZE]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/FONT]
[SIZE=3][FONT=Calibri]New Tires [/FONT][/SIZE]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/FONT]
[SIZE=3][FONT=Calibri]S-04 Poles (Not Run Flat)[/FONT][/SIZE]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/FONT]
[SIZE=3][FONT=Calibri]225/45/17 [/FONT][/SIZE]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/FONT]
[SIZE=3][FONT=Calibri]Weight 25 LBS.[/FONT][/SIZE]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/FONT]
[SIZE=3][FONT=Calibri]Section Width 8.9[/FONT][/SIZE]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/FONT]
[SIZE=3][FONT=Calibri]Tread Width 8.1[/FONT][/SIZE]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/FONT]
[SIZE=3][FONT=Calibri]Overall Diameter 25[/FONT][/SIZE]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/FONT]
[SIZE=3][FONT=Calibri]Revs per Mile 835[/FONT][/SIZE]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3] [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/FONT]
[SIZE=3][FONT=Calibri]Stock Tires[/FONT][/SIZE]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/FONT]
[SIZE=3][FONT=Calibri]Conti Sport Contact 3 (Run Flat)[/FONT][/SIZE]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/FONT]
[SIZE=3][FONT=Calibri]Weight 21 LBS. [/FONT][/SIZE]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/FONT]
[SIZE=3][FONT=Calibri]Section Width 8.4[/FONT][/SIZE]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/FONT]
[SIZE=3][FONT=Calibri]Tread Width 7.4[/FONT][/SIZE]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/FONT]
[SIZE=3][FONT=Calibri]Overall Diameter 24.3[/FONT][/SIZE]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/FONT]
[SIZE=3][FONT=Calibri]Revs per Mile 856[/FONT][/SIZE]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3] [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/FONT]
[SIZE=3][FONT=Calibri]The contact patch difference is huge at a 27.24% increase,2.88% due to diameter and 9.46% due to width. I was concerned about the effectof the extra 4 lbs. on travel response, but on washboard roads in the cornersit does not side skip at all. The bottomline, I think the tire size is just a better fit for the R56 Turbo overall.[/FONT][/SIZE]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/FONT]
[SIZE=3][FONT=Calibri]As we all know, everyone defines better handling differently.[/FONT][/SIZE]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/FONT]
[SIZE=3][FONT=Calibri]For my 2011 Cooper S Sport Package Hatch with JCW tuning kit++, I wanted less traction light time (wheel spin) in and wanted better tractionin the corners. I dumped the stock tiresand when with 225 45 17 Potenza S-04 pole positions:[/FONT][/SIZE]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3]1.[/SIZE][/FONT] [SIZE=3][FONT=Calibri]They filled the wheel wells nicely (I get askhow much I lowered the car a lot) [/FONT][/SIZE]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3]2.[/SIZE][/FONT] [SIZE=3][FONT=Calibri]Corrected the speedo to true speed (per my gps) [/FONT][/SIZE]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3]3.[/SIZE][/FONT] [SIZE=3][FONT=Calibri]Improved the ride by 10 fold (No worries aboutbending rims in potholes) [/FONT][/SIZE]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3]4.[/SIZE][/FONT] [SIZE=3][FONT=Calibri]Improved highway mileage by 3 MPG (same in thecity) [/FONT][/SIZE]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3]5.[/SIZE][/FONT] [SIZE=3][FONT=Calibri]Corners like being on rails (I can’t make thestability control light come one in corners)[/FONT][/SIZE]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3]6.[/SIZE][/FONT] [SIZE=3][FONT=Calibri]No more wheel spin in first or second gear (Itjust hooks up and go’s, a much faster hole shot)[/FONT][/SIZE]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3]7.[/SIZE][/FONT] [SIZE=3][FONT=Calibri]They fit on my 17 X 7 stock R111 Black StarBullet Rims just fine[/FONT][/SIZE]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/FONT]
[SIZE=3][FONT=Calibri]The specs differences:[/FONT][/SIZE]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/FONT]
[SIZE=3][FONT=Calibri]New Tires [/FONT][/SIZE]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/FONT]
[SIZE=3][FONT=Calibri]S-04 Poles (Not Run Flat)[/FONT][/SIZE]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/FONT]
[SIZE=3][FONT=Calibri]225/45/17 [/FONT][/SIZE]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/FONT]
[SIZE=3][FONT=Calibri]Weight 25 LBS.[/FONT][/SIZE]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/FONT]
[SIZE=3][FONT=Calibri]Section Width 8.9[/FONT][/SIZE]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/FONT]
[SIZE=3][FONT=Calibri]Tread Width 8.1[/FONT][/SIZE]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/FONT]
[SIZE=3][FONT=Calibri]Overall Diameter 25[/FONT][/SIZE]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/FONT]
[SIZE=3][FONT=Calibri]Revs per Mile 835[/FONT][/SIZE]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3] [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/FONT]
[SIZE=3][FONT=Calibri]Stock Tires[/FONT][/SIZE]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/FONT]
[SIZE=3][FONT=Calibri]Conti Sport Contact 3 (Run Flat)[/FONT][/SIZE]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/FONT]
[SIZE=3][FONT=Calibri]Weight 21 LBS. [/FONT][/SIZE]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/FONT]
[SIZE=3][FONT=Calibri]Section Width 8.4[/FONT][/SIZE]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/FONT]
[SIZE=3][FONT=Calibri]Tread Width 7.4[/FONT][/SIZE]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/FONT]
[SIZE=3][FONT=Calibri]Overall Diameter 24.3[/FONT][/SIZE]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/FONT]
[SIZE=3][FONT=Calibri]Revs per Mile 856[/FONT][/SIZE]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3] [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/FONT]
[SIZE=3][FONT=Calibri]The contact patch difference is huge at a 27.24% increase,2.88% due to diameter and 9.46% due to width. I was concerned about the effectof the extra 4 lbs. on travel response, but on washboard roads in the cornersit does not side skip at all. The bottomline, I think the tire size is just a better fit for the R56 Turbo overall.[/FONT][/SIZE]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/FONT]
5th Gear
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 731
Likes: 5
From: Near Portland, OR, USA
Hey Braminator,... I've been meaning to ask you: Do the RFP1 Einkies fit tightly on the hub?
That's the one thing I like about the S-Lites is that the center bore fits so tight on that lip of the center of the hub.
I plan to change wheels when tires are due. I've always liked the RFP1. Will go for 17", and I have stock brakes on the MINI.
I once had some nice light weight wheels on my VW, but I needed to use spacers to clear the brakes. I didn't like that the only thing holding the wheel on was the lug bolts, because the lip on the hub wasn't long enough to reach the center bore of the wheel with the spacers. Do you think I'll have such issues with R53?
That's the one thing I like about the S-Lites is that the center bore fits so tight on that lip of the center of the hub.
I plan to change wheels when tires are due. I've always liked the RFP1. Will go for 17", and I have stock brakes on the MINI.
I once had some nice light weight wheels on my VW, but I needed to use spacers to clear the brakes. I didn't like that the only thing holding the wheel on was the lug bolts, because the lip on the hub wasn't long enough to reach the center bore of the wheel with the spacers. Do you think I'll have such issues with R53?
Hey Braminator,... I've been meaning to ask you: Do the RFP1 Einkies fit tightly on the hub?
That's the one thing I like about the S-Lites is that the center bore fits so tight on that lip of the center of the hub.
I plan to change wheels when tires are due. I've always liked the RFP1. Will go for 17", and I have stock brakes on the MINI.
I once had some nice light weight wheels on my VW, but I needed to use spacers to clear the brakes. I didn't like that the only thing holding the wheel on was the lug bolts, because the lip on the hub wasn't long enough to reach the center bore of the wheel with the spacers. Do you think I'll have such issues with R53?
That's the one thing I like about the S-Lites is that the center bore fits so tight on that lip of the center of the hub.
I plan to change wheels when tires are due. I've always liked the RFP1. Will go for 17", and I have stock brakes on the MINI.
I once had some nice light weight wheels on my VW, but I needed to use spacers to clear the brakes. I didn't like that the only thing holding the wheel on was the lug bolts, because the lip on the hub wasn't long enough to reach the center bore of the wheel with the spacers. Do you think I'll have such issues with R53?
http://www.breyton.com/global/wheels/list.php
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