Forgive me for asking a potentially stupid question. I have a 19mm alta bar on full stiff. I find it to be quite civilized. I've been driving a lot of RWD stuff lately, and my favourite characteristic of RWD is the ability to kick out the back end.

Would going with a 22mm bar help me accomplish lift-off oversteer for general parking lot screwing around?

 

A 22mm bar would give you more oversteer, yes.

You could also play with your tire pressure short for some short term balancing satisfactions; more in the back, less in the front.

 

You might want to look at the Tarett adjustable rear bar. I have the 23.8mm hollow bar, and I LOVE it. I can adjust it softer like my old 19mm Alta, or make it extremely stiff with plenty of throttle off oversteer. Best of all worlds in my opinion. It's like having a 19mm bar and a 22mm bar. Downside is that it's expensive, but I still consider it worth it. WayMotorWorks sells them - http://www.waymotorworks.com/02-06-c...ion/sway-bars/

 

You might also want to look into adding more front camber and reducing rear camber. I find most people run big ol' swaybars with crappy alignments.

 

I've seen the Tarett and it's just hawt!!!

 

Yikes, $500! I think I'll try tire pressure first! How much variance between front and rear would be a good start? 34psi/38psi?

I've been thinking of adding camber plates up front. I am slightly lowered and I do have a "proper" alignment, within factory spec.

 

FWIW I put the HSport Comp bar (25.5mm hollow) on my clubman yesterday and love it. I haven't gotten an opportunity to try to spin it yet and see where the threshold is, but I can tell on a few corners it will be fun.

 

Honestly, I'd start at max PSI in the rear for the tires you're running. If you get the desired affect, lower the psi until you're just starting to lose that affect. Any adjustment in pressure will obviously affect tire wear, so just be aware of that.

YES! Adding camber plates up front can only help you meet your goal. The more g's the front can take, the easier it is to bring the rear out. Camber plates and the rear sway bar go hand in hand. I would keep your 19mm and get camber plates for now, then see how it is. You still won't meet your goals, but you should be able to get the rear end out with a little left foot trail braking in a sharp corner.

 

...

 

Factory spec stinks! Get some IE fixed plates...huge difference. More front grip, better turn-in, and more even tire wear for me. And they're more durable than the crappy stock mounts.

- Andrew

 

I am also in the camp that suggests adding front camber plates (IE fixed or H-Sport adjustable) and keeping the 19mm rear bar. Then get the car aligned to your specs not the factory specs.

 

You can go over stiff , and just lock up rear suspension with the Tarett. So over bumps the rear just bangs over them. Its a sweet setup and I have the 25mm and can set it up about like stock if I want. Easy to install too.

 

Or if you were actually legit. You could adjust your driving style to the car. Try pogo-sticking the brake on corner entry. And I know Mini is just another word for BMW, but your ebrake should still be somewhat functional.

 

Yeah the hand brake does work for kicking the tail out, i just dont want to snap the cable or something

 

Just get an H-Sport competition rear sway bar and don't think about it. Its great. I put one on my 2012 JCW and it has been the best modification so far. Ignore threads where people say its too much bar and it will be tail happy. I have 4 autocrosses using it on the medium setting and the backend will just start to rotate but it never becomes dangerously uncontrollable. And to get it to do that you have to be pushing the car hard, which I would hope its never pushed that hard on public roads.

I really want to try it out of stiff but its working so well on medium and I am putting up competitive autocross times for my class that I don't want to mess with it too much. I bet stiff would really be fun for messing around.

 

I'll look into that, thanks! Yeah, I push it a little bit, but never at insane speeds I wouldn't be able to recover from. Apparently there is some autocross near me now, I'm going to look into trying it out.

 

I gotta say guys. I don't approve of all this talk about slapping on "Part XYZ" and then your car will handle like "insert euphemism for better". The single biggest factor in how a car handles (besides configuration of course) is the tire.
And honestly, what might be "a little push" with one car, one driver, and certain conditions, will probably be drastically different with another car/driver/condition combination. You guys need to start using DAQ and getting actual numbers rather using vague comparisons and limp-wristed, ham-fisted anecdotal stories.

 

Seriously?

 

So now I have about 5k miles on mine and love it. Just yesterday I was hurrying to make a yellow light on a nice left hand turn and could easily control the rear as I came in too hot for not sliding and just turned in...I lifted throttle and no brakes. The butt stepped out a but and I felt in total control but still accomplished my fun turn all while impressing my wife.

 

That is called trailing throttle oversteer or TTO.

 

On the subject of camber, if you just go for the "hellaflush" rear camber you will most likely end up with a smaller rear contact patch. That could help you accomplish your parking lot hooliganism. On the handbrake note, I came from driving hondas, and the first time I was pulling into a parking spot I yanked the handbrake like it was a flaccid honda lever and to my surprise the rear tires locked up. So if you dont care about tire wear...there is always that option. I highly doubt the cable would snap, but I could be wrong.

 

What is a hellaflush rear camber? I come from the track world and have never heard if it.

Also pulling the parking brake is a normal autox method to rotate the car quickly. It is almost never used on the faster tracks. You pull the parking brake just enough to lose some traction in the rear so the car rotates.

 

It is interesting that Porsche has spent the last 50 years or so to design out the oversteer from their car because there were too many of them leaving the road and punching holes through hedges backwards. While it might be fun to have a MINI rotate in a parking lot, it can and will bite you in the middle of the entrance ramp you enter too fast on a rain slick night as your natural tendency is to lift off the throttle and that will spin the car. Under the right (or you might say wrong) conditions even a MINI with a stock sports suspension will rotate the rear end out, as it did for me at NJMP. Just enter a corner too fast and lift a little off the gas.

Not saying to not put in a 22mm RSB, just saying that it will be a dramatic change that can bite back. And remember that it improves the traction on the front by reducing the traction on the back and that is what will get you.

But, IMO, I would highly suggest the IE fixed camber plates with the 19mm bar you already have. That will improve traction on the front without sacrificing rear traction.

 

Hellaflush rear camber is a bit of a trend these days.

Lowered beyond low (ie hellaflush.) stretched tires, and absurd camber:



I would never do such a thing to my car.

I appreciate everyones input, this is an interesting discussion. I certainly don't want to lift off and oversteer into a guardrail, but I think I can handle the car being a little more tail happy than it is. I'm going to hit a big empty parking lot this weekend and practise some methods pointed out here... handbrake, etc.

 

Oooooooo, I think that might be bad for tire wear....