Hi all MINI Lover

So I was browsing youtube and came across this video yesterday.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCi2yo4UqPI

This video provided me some food for thought about all the cold air intakes out there for Mini Cooper.

Ch28Kid

 

It's a shame they didn't use a MINI for their test. I was already a sceptic of CAI's, based on the number of posts that claim they offer little if any gain. This, however, will not change anything for those who can "feel" the improvement.

 

IMO if you want colder air, get a bigger front mount. It'll do more than any intake will

 

That's the reasoning for why I just picked up an FMIC and passed on the CAI. I was never convinced that a CAI really does much or anything for a turbo car.

 

i am not convinced about the CAIs, but there is something to be said about the higher airflow with the gauze and foam drop-in replacement filters

i saw 2-3 mpg on my v6 sonoma with a K&N drop-in, same with both of my BMW motorcycles

on the bikes, my butt-dyno can feel the difference, on the sonoma not so much, but the mpg is real

on the other hand, thr CAIs do make a sweet sound!

has anyone done a back-to-back dyno run stock vs CAI, with no other changes?

scott

ps you-tube blocked at work, have to look tonight5, if it shows back-to-back dyno runs
scott

 

I'm actually more skeptical of filters. And even in the vid they showed the same HP without a filter to show there's no restriction from the filter.

 

I've always thought exactly what this test proves. Of course I own an R50, not a Skyline. I do believe the results will vary from car to car. Your mileage may vary......

 

Yep! Video right below.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAIxe...feature=relmfu

 

I don't own a CAI but if I got one it'd be more for the great sound than any HP gain I'd see. A CAI alone will doubtfully give you anything but combined with other mods there may be a benefit whether it's power related or not. What I find funny is the only thing that could really be considered a true CAI I've seen made for a MINI is the DOS and perhaps the M7 intake. All others are no different than what comes from the factory as far as I can tell.

 

No real opinion on if they are right or wrong, but their test isn't worth squat. One box fan doesn't mimic real world air flow, not even close, especially without the fronts turning as well.

 

You musta missed the part where they showed that with the CAI the temperature of the air going in was same temp as ambient but still showed no HP gain. So that industrial fan they were using did its job just fine. Its not that the fan wasn't blowing enough, it shows that the CAI keeping the temp of the air same as temp of air outside of the engine compartment didn't show any real gains.

And it does mean something, and a lot more than people's anecdotal butt dynos telling them there's a gain. CAI's seem to work in naturally aspirated cars, but i've never really heard of them adding much or anything for turbo cars as the video pretty much demonstrates.

 

lol awesome post. i just watched this and wanted to post it up but you beat me to it. this is very good after all those suckers telling of awesome gains after fitting a CAI on here. i no its not a mini but you would think a mini would be even more efficent stock than a 10 year old skyline.

 

Did you watch it? The one where the intake was in front of the bumper they did see gains. Regardless, none of the tests mean squat because it in no way simulated the air flow of real driving conditions.

 

@Juppers

Did you watch it? The last one is so unrealistic.

Just wondering, how many fans do they need to simulated the air flow of real driving condition? Perhaps shove a high CFM leaf blower in front of the CAI?

 

I agree with most of the comments above. Lots of the CAI's out for mini are just to get a different filter and suck hot air. The DOS makes a bunch of sense to try and get ambient air, whether it is better than stock is debatable.

The MINI is so well tuned from the factory that big gains from an exhaust and/or CAI are not there. If you have done other mods, then it is probably worth more. There is something to be said for a sound upgrade from an intake or exhaust, though. If a car sounds faster, then that may be used in the butt-dyno calibration....

Everyone has opinions, that is what is great about a forum like this. If the concept of spending $$ for a CAI makes sense to you, then you can do it.

Have fun,
Mike

 

You realize that by it not simulating real driving conditions, it actually makes CAIs even more useless on the car.

They showed how the air temp going into the CAI was same as the air outside the car in the room. That is the job of the CAI. A moving car does not have the magical ability to lower the temp of the air outside.

Yes, when they had the air filter and routed to 3 feet in front of the car, they showed some small insignificant gain.

So with your logic about how the test isnt' simulating real driving conditions, it can be argued that in real driving, the engine bay is actually getting more air blowing in and cooler than in the test where the car sits still with a fan on it. So maybe the HP when not using a CAI would be slightly higher cause of real world driving and air blowing into the engine bay. The CAI wouldn't make any extra gains in real world driving cause is already doing its job of bringing in air with the same temp as outside the engine bay. A moving car will not drop the temp of the ambient air.

Therefore, its possible that in real world conditions, that insignificant gain they showed with that long tube going outside the engine bay wouldn't even be there anymore. And there would be absolutely no gains, except those of the butt dyno.

 

As the vid showed, and what I've been told for years by people modding their turbo cars, a CAI on a turbo car really isn't that great cause even if it does bring in air from outside the engine bay, it has to pass through the red hot turbo. In the vid they did a test where they showed that the air coming out of the turbo was pretty much the same temp regardless of the CAI or not.
So the intercooler is way more important for cooling than any CAI is. Of course this is all assuming you don't have any restricition on your intake.

 

You can assume all you want, that doesn't make your conclusions correct. Neither does their testing apply to driving conditions. I'm not saying their opinions are right or wrong, I'm saying the testing method is invalid and doesn't apply to the real world.

 

Jupper

It applies t the real world just fine, you cant dyno a car while rolling down the road and theres no accurate means of measuring power in that instance. The test ran the same baseline for each method tested. The CAI, no filter, drop in filters etc were all run on the same dyno, same fan, same ambient temp. They were measuring it to be sure, i understand the argument of there would be more airflow while driving on the highway at 60 mph, that is very true, but the same gain you would see in a cold air intake in that situation would be the same gains seen in he stock airbox.

As well as a few degrees air temp difference isnt enough change in airdensity to give a huge change in power, as having the filer outside the car showed only a 2-3 hp gain, which is insignificant and completely unnoticeable to the drive

I have heard some people say that they saw no difference is power but slightly sharper throttle response from certain CAIs, which i could see being valid.

 

A fan blowing at the hood in no way reflects the air being chopped and churned by the spinnig wheels, the different air speeds coming at the car based on wind and speed being driven, cross winds, the heat being generated by the brakes, etc. if you must insist that it somehow applies despite ignoring thousands of environmental conditions that can greatly alter the results, then fine, I'll agree with you, so now we're both wrong.

 

I'm completely lost as to how "air being chopped and churned by the spinnig wheels, the different air speeds coming at the car based on wind and speed being driven, cross winds, the heat being generated by the brakes, etc" affects the CAI. That stuff would affect drag, or air resistance of the car.

The CAI's job is to bring in air that isn't the hot underhood air...and at best case scenario, the air with the same temp as what is outside. And they showed that the CAI does do that by measuring the temperatures of the air going in and temp of the room and it was the same.

 

Your logic is greatly un educated and hurting my brain.
As a naval architecture student i have a fiar knowledge of fluid flow.
The air being "churned" by the wheels has no infuence on engine induction, we have wheel wells..... The heat generated by the brakes is cooled by the "churning air" of the wheels and pulled away from the car , they tested it on mythbusters, they could not get anything around the wheels to burn while they were spinning, and for the same reason you continue driving to cool brakes when they auto ignite from hard track driving on improper pads.
If anything the stock airboxes on a mini would be more effective by the logic of air being driven at the car, the intake hose is located behing the gap of the headlight and hood, forcing air between it , a cold air intake or pod inside the engine bay that is insulated from most of the flowing air bc of the radiator/fan/intercooler etc has less pressure on it.

these arguments are good entertainment

 

Interesting thread. I'll have to check the video later, but I get the picture. I went with the DDM intake on my straight Cooper for the simple reason that I wanted MORE air. Nothing in the design of the DDM would lead me to believe that it's cooling anything since the opening faces the back of the engine bay. I only have my butt dyno to tell that in a non-S, it makes a difference in throttle response and sound. Not sure why anyone would say there's no difference between a stock box and a CAI - it's obvious on a straight Cooper that there's a difference.

 

I can see a potential in throttle response, as a stock base cooper is kinda piggish on throttle response in low rpm band.

But in the realm of overall power output i would be shocked to see more than a 2-3 hp gain

 

CAI's do make a difference on a naturally aspirated car. But not so much for turbo cars cause the air still has to pass through the burning hot turbo.