About two weeks ago, I had noticed sometimes the car would idle very rough...fluctuate between 500-1000 RPM, but never die. I live 150 miles away from a dealer, but it only did it a few times, so I thought I'd not worry about it, and also chalked it up to a spell of cold weather that we'd just had.

Flash forward two weeks, in preparation for a road trip, I checked my oil and it seemed fine. Granted, the dipstick is really hard to read, but it was covered in oil when I wiped it clean and checked again. And it definitely had oil on the end of it and seemed fine. So I took off on my trip, and halfway through it, the car started dying occasionally at idle, even if it was warm. No lights would ever come on, it would just die. It would restart and idle very rough, but if i kept the idle up it was fine.

This happened about 1/3 of the time.


So once i got to my destination, I took it to the closest MINI dealer and they just called and said that it's three quarts low of oil!?! How can that be? If it was three quarts low at the start, then how in the world would any oil appear on the dipstick?

And if it lost three quarts in 1000 miles, wouldn't I be belching blue smoke?

And if i really was three quarts low before my 1,000 mile trip, now I'm worried that I've destroyed my engine by driving that far.

Thoughts? Suggestions?

 

At this point, with the new oil change, start monitoring the level closely to see if there really is any consumption. If there is, then you'll have the task of trying to figure out what may be causing it.

As far as the miles you already drove on it with the oil level so low - what's done is done. Either the engine is damaged or it isn't. But probably the only way to really find out (shorting of completely tearing it down) is going to be to wait for a failure to occur.

 

Kind of an automotive Schrödinger's cat.......

 

I'd also recommend using a paper towel to exactly determine the oil level. You said you had oil 'on the end of it'. On the end of it can be very low on oil. Take a clean paper towel and when you pull the dip stick out roll it on the paper towel to get an exact reading on where the oil is. It should be at the upper mark.

Also I do not pay attention to Mini's oil change interval. I have an 07 justa that gets oil changes every 5000 miles. I just did one a couple of days ago. Its oil level was still exactly full after 5000 miles. I never use oil. The oil and filter also didn't look like they wanted to go longer! I use BMW branded oil as well. A modern engine shouldn't use 3 quarts of oil if properly maintained.

 

Thanks for helping me learn something new last night!

I wonder if on parts of the Internet, instead of "omg, not another oil change thread" the quantum physicists post things like, "omg, not another Schrödinger's cat thread!"

 

Maybe it's time for BMW to step up and put an oil level gauge inside the cockpit. The wifey's entry level BMW has no dipstick. You have to trust the ECU to keep you informed of your oil status.

 

Something doesn't mesh. Either the car was low on oil starting out (I suspect it was) or it's burning oil really fast. If that's the case you'll find out real quick on the rest of the trip. Did the dealer think it could be burning oil fast?

 

Dealer and MINI were less than helpful. Since the car threw no codes and the CEL never came on, the only thing they would do was the oil change...for which they charged me $140 since I'm past the free oil change mileage/age. I even called MINI USA per the dealer palming me off to them. The dealer said they could do nothing more since MINI wouldn't pay for a compression test that I requested...MINI USA said they stand behind the dealer. Classic case of blaming the other guy.

I really HATE the dipstick. I checked it prior to leaving and had read the threads on how best to check it, and felt reasonably confident that it had plenty of oil. Hindsight is 20/20 of course, and now I'm doubting my ability to read the dipstick...which is VEREY FRUSTRATING. I'm not a mechanic, but I'm also not a total idiot...I've changed brake pads, oil, bled brake lines, etc., and the fact that the dipstick could make me think that it was full of oil is quite frustrating.

The thing I find most strange is the fact that at three quarts low, the car was idling rough and occasioanlly dying at stoplights ...yet never had a fault code show up? On the one hand, if the engine is not damaged, then it's a testament of synthetic oil and the capability of the oil pump to maintain pressure with such low fluid levels. If the engine IS damaged, then why doesn't MINI have the computer set to throw a code?

 

I wonder how that would work though. My car was supposedly three quarts low and never triggered a fault code. If that happened with your wife's car, the car would be acting up before you were even aware of the oil being far too low.

 

You're absolutely right, if the car malfunctions and doesn't realize it's running out of oil, I'm screwed. The dash display is kind of neat but I'd rather have an old fashioned dipstick (that I can read) under the hood.

 

let us know what you find out. Im interested to hear what caused a sudden loss of oil.

 

I think the difference between the top part of the dipstick and the lower end is only one quart. So if you saw oil then it couldn't have been that low on oil.

Also if you were that low on oil wouldn't the oil pressure light go off? Something just doesn't add up...

 

Or a 3rd option is an oil leak........

 

I would have hopped they actually checked for leaks but you never know. It could be leaking internally though.

To the OP...is the car still running rough?

 

I was having the same problem on my 07 Mini Cooper S. It was going through oil like drinking water and it wasn't leaking ( as far I as could tell) but there was a bit of black smoke from the exhaust. The oil warning light was come on at the end of the month after being filled up (It happened like three times). The dealership also monitor the levels too.

The dealer had my car for about a month and ended up replacing the engine. They could not pin point the problem but did find a bearing ball in the oil pan. The problem with that was there wasn't a broken bearing anywhere in the engine. They just old me that it was most likely a factory error.

Lucky for me it was all under warranty!

 

Hindsight as they say is 20/20. I have come to the conclusion that the car has been low on oil for quite awhile, and I did not burn it on my 1,000 mile trip.

The car is running fine now, and has consumed little if any oil in my return trip (assuming that my skills at reading the dipstick have improved!)

I come to that conclusion because the three symptoms that I had prior to the oil change all miraculously disappeared post-oil change:

1) I had a noise that I attributed to a heat shield rattle from the engine compartment. This would occur around 2,000 RPM in 2nd or 3rd gear. It had started several months ago, VERY sporadically, only when the engine was cold. (I wonder what this was?)

2) I had a ticking sound that reminded me of the sound my Miata would get if I was running the wrong viscosity oil. This is actually what prompted me to check my oil prior to my trip and evidently read it wrong.

3) Rough idle once or twice…chalked up to a recent cold spell. Then of course, on my trip, this got much worse and actually started dying about 30-50% of the time at idle, unless I kept applying gas.

All of this with zero fault codes stored in the computer.

When I asked the service manager “how can a car be dying and not throw codes”, his excuse was “well, we see that sometimes.” I understand the engineers cannot come up with diagnostic codes for every single scenario, but since BMW is making cars with no oil dipstick, wouldn’t you think they’d want a way to alert the driver to low oil in another manner?

What I hadn’t remembered when talking to the Service Manager was the fact that the car had indeed flashed a red light at me twice. There were two instances where I was cornering hard and a red light popped onto the display in the tach…and after looking at the Owner’s Manual, I now realize it had to be the “engine oil pressure too low” symbol. At the time, it flashed on and off so quickly, I dismissed the severity of it, and attributed it to cold weather.

So now I’m really upset…if the car had flashed that code twice…then why was nothing stored in the computer? I’m assuming there must be a time-limit that it only goes back so far?

Bottom-line, I accept the culpability of not being accurate in the reading of the dipstick…and that makes me feel really stupid. That does not lessen my disappointment at MINI/BMW for not engineering the car such that fault codes are stored for longer periods of time …or that fault codes are developed for low oil levels…particularly in their cars with no dipsticks (of which the MINI is not one…but could still benefit from that bit of tech). Couldn’t it be as simple as a sensor in the oil pan that turns yellow when it senses the oil is below it for a certain time period (to allow for hard cornering instances where the oil shifts)?

I’m also disappointed at the finger-pointing exhibited between the dealer and MINI USA. When I asked the dealer to do a simple compression test, their response was “MINI won’t pay for it since there are no fault codes”….and gave me the MINI USA phone number to call. When I talked to that rep, I was told. “we stand behind whatever the dealer feels is necessary for diagnosis”. Classic Catch-22...They will only pay for the test if it throws a code, yet MINI didn’t engineer the car to throw a fault code in low-oil instances, so therefore there will never be a need to run a test at their cost to check for damage caused by low oil levels. When I talked to the Dealer’s service manager, I told him that MINI USA basically threw them under the bus because they way MINI USA stated it to me, if the dealer felt the test was warranted, they’d pay for it.

I guess one could argue that the engineering must be pretty good if the engine is still running…having run for quite awhile on a little more than a quart of oil. Unfortunately, I still have fears that damage was done, and just has yet to show up. A friend that’s an old-school car guy seems to feel that if it’s running fine, and not displaying extra thirst for oil, then everything is probably fine. However, this engine is a lot different than the old 60s and 70s-era muscle cars he grew up with.

So, there you have it. I’m open to constructive comments, thoughts, suggestions etc, as to your opinions on the likelihood of long-term damage, and whether I should put Waldo out to pasture…or if I dodged a really big bullet!

 

The finger pointing is unfortunate. I have a tendency to agree with your friend. Typically oil starvation damage will manifest itself in some way pretty quickly. More smoke or other things coming from the tailpipe. Decreased fuel economy, oil usage or unusual sounds that don't sound good from the engine.

I don't know what you can do about the Dealer or Mini USA. I can only say that at this point about all you can do is monitor the state of the engine and how the car is operating and take appropriate action to mitigate any issues that may come up.

The thing that bothers me is the idle issue. In my eyes that is the suspicious thing. I'm really surprised that a code was not thrown because of this. Clearly a phenomenon like that is not normal and something should have been recorded.

I hope it works out for you. Meanwhile change the oil when required and check it often.

Good luck

 

We got ourselves into a situation (long story no need here) where a friend of my wife's worked on her VW passat v6 (held 5 or 6 quarts of oil) and then drove it
about 700 miles with about 1/2 quart of oil in it. This was a 1999 car too.

So it is my thinking that modern cars and especially modern cars w/synthetic oil
can withstand a no oil mistake.

 

I was having rattling noises coming from my engine and thought it was the chain tensioner thing. I'm out of warranty at 57,xxx miles. I took it to the dealership and they said the car was 3 quarts low on oil. Similar to your case...

The stealership said that The front crank sensor seal needed to be replaced at a tune of $512 as it is leaking and the passenger side axel seal is leaking ($499). When I asked them if it was the front or rear axel, they said rear. I said ok. Provide me with the part numbers for both parts. It took 4 different people to figure out what the tech was talking about and they kept me waiting for 45 minutes with no answer. One guy said, it has to be the front axel because the car doesn't have a rear axel seal. I said "I'm only going off of what the mini tech said"-- I don't know what the hell the dealership was trying to do. Rip me off for nearly $1,000?

Has anyone replaced the front crank sensor seal?

I will def start checking my oil frequently.

Help!

 

Oh and, they still couldn't provide me with part numbers!

 

Like owning a 2 stroke.

 

Exactly. That really puzzles me. If a car is running so poorly that it can't hold a steady idle, shouldn't SOMETHING show up?

That also begs the question...WHY was it running so poorly, if the oil pressure was considered "within spec" so as not to record a fault code? In my mind, I just see the pistons struggling to move up and down to the lack of lubrication...which is exactly why I fear there is damage.

 

If the powertrain sensors are reporting back signals that are within specifications, no faults will be recorded.
Yes, the car may have been fighting to idle, but the control system for the idle never saw the adjustments out of spec.

There's no diagnostic trouble code (DTC) related to oil pressure or lack of.
Recalling all of the mandated OBDII DTC's, there's never been such a fault defined as it's a mechanical fluid system, not electro-mechanical.

- Erik

 

Thanks for the insights!

But the car was dying .. Shouldn't that be out of spec?




If there's no DTC, then how/why do they have an "oil pressure low" light?

I hear you, but I cannot get past how dumb this seems. If they're building engines with no way to check the oil,wouldn't it be int heir best interest to add a way to monitor it? Or are you saying since its all mechanical, they can't?

Just to clarify, im not arguing or attacking, just questioning!

 

Just because the engine may be mechanically "fighting" itself due to friction, doesn't mean sensor(s) will pick up on such, especially if the allowable range of operation hasn't been exceeded.

That's simply an 'idiot' light; turned on / off with a simple pressure solenoid.
The oil pressure sensor is not monitored through the ECU to where if oil pressure is low it registers a code; it's not wired / coded as such.

You can't read the mechanical oil dipstick?

As an owner, it's the owner's responsibility to check and maintain the vehicle.
It's clearly stated within the owners and operation manual to verify oil level from the dipstick under the hood.

Oil pressure is measured with a simply pressure solenoid on most cars.
Either you have a minimum required oil pressure or you don't; that warning light / message is telling the same thing.

- Erik