A lot of people gave M-7 a hard time on his new wing that he announced. The main complaints was that it looked too rice or there were no numbers to indicate downforce and drag.

In the latest issue of GoMini, Mark Speller shows off his new JCW that he will be racing in this years John Cooper Challenge. Last year Mark won the overall title for the series. On the back of his car looks like a wing that is nearly identical to the M7 wing. Both appear to be adjustable and both appear to be the same size.

While it may look rice on the street, obviously this race winner thinks it keeps him competitve in the series. Just thought it was interesting that this type of wing is starting to show up on some race circuits. Mark Speller's image is small but there are many more images in the article.

M7 Wing:




Mark Speller's Wing:

 

Don't flame me, this is just a question.

How come there's no wing on this Mark Speller John Cooper Challenge 2003 car? I notice the one in your pic is an S. Where'd that pic come from? 2004 Series?

 

i argee though some think this style wing is rice the rice look when done well evolved from racing all the wings bodykits and stickers. if you dont like it cool most probley dont but there is no reason to bash someones parts because you dont like it.
coop

 

A-ha!

I found a pic of a 2004 JCW MCS that's running in the series. Check out the wing:

 

countrym,

Last year Mark raced the non-S, this year he is racing the S.

I agree though, some people may not like it, because it does stand out. That is fine. Just wanted to show that it is appearing races. I saw another one, but I can't find the pics.

 

If it's strictly for looks, then it should be judged on its aesthetics. Beauty, or lack thereof, is in the eye of the beholder.

If it is for racing, then it should be judged on its function. If I were to buy a wing for racing, I'd want to see at least SOME data to back up its function. Change in lap times, perhaps?

 

Realistically though, what kind of change in lap times would you expect? Even if the wing does provide needed (?) downforce it just isn't realistic to expect it will make even a small difference. Theres a lot of larger influencing factors to consider than a wing (on the mini).

Secondly, some of you should pick up a MAG I like called Evo. A recent issue had an article on wind tunnel testing. The going rate of several hundred dollars per minute just doesn't sound feasable to test a $300 wing. Now a $15,000 F1 wing, yeah, but grapes and tator tots.

About this rice complex that seems to be eating opinions. You all realize we drive a 4 cylinder compact right? Rice is what ever you want it to be (usually everthing different to yourself). Remember when you point your finger, you got three of your own fingers pointing right back at you.

Aestheticly speaking, the wings are totally different. Not too unlike the MINI in the SUV jungle. I believe that alone makes the wings attractive.

_________________
-goin440 IB/IB MC

 

The thing I never understood about the RICE statement was that it is nothing more then labeling particular things done to cars that a large group of people find fugly....but who really cares...if the owner likes it, that is all that matters. If someone wants to put a huge 3 tier wing and 20" spinners on their MINI, more power to them...the MINI is anything you want to make it to be as it is YOURS....not the general populations. Now for street use would I use this wing, probably not, but if I were track racing I would be looking at the advantages a wing could give me....but if someone wants to run this wing on the street just because they like it, DO IT...don't let other peoples' tastes influence yours. If your going to call the wing rice, might as well call the slites or r90s rice as they don't do anythign for performance of the vehicle and add a ton of extra weight...but some people love the look of them on their MINI and don't care about the extra weight....so it is perfect for them.

 

>>Realistically though, what kind of change in lap times would you expect? Even if the wing does provide needed (?) downforce it just isn't realistic to expect it will make even a small difference. Theres a lot of larger influencing factors to consider than a wing (on the mini).
>>

If you cant expect a change in lap time then the only reason to buy it is because of its asthetic appeal.

 

>>
>>If you cant expect a change in lap time then the only reason to buy it is because of its asthetic appeal.


Not nesscessarily. Maybe the wing eases tire wear on the track... or maybe fuel consumption is influenced? Not saying it does, but I can't say it doesn't.

 

A little input from the instigator

I now a couple of thousand miles of street, track and some infamous canyon driving under my belt, testing my wing.
The difference in downforce at different inclinations are astounding, in the tight confines of canyons at full inclination
the car sticks so hard that I have to stiffen compression of the shocks, and stiffen the rear bar to allow the chassis to rotate properly.These tests also incuded the front splitter to give as much down force in front as possible.


At a medium speed track with tight corners the middle setting is proper giving less wind resistance but a fair amount of
down force. This setting will necessitate a tighter suspension setting and lower tire pressures to allow the car to rotate
properly.

The flattest setting gives the least amount of down force allowing true high speed runs without impedance of higher CG.
This setting ads a fair amount of high speed stability that can really be felt, again this is in combination with
the M7 front splitter.....

So does it work Hell Yeaah

 

U rock Peter,
Cant wait for my set to arrive.
Thinking about matching rear splitter??
pppllleeeaaassseee

 

I personally do not like wings. When I bought my SVX in '91 I made sure it didn't have one. That was when Rice was something you got from your Uncle Ben.

But, I have to admit that Peter's wing is very attractive.

What I don't understand is why a racing Mini would look for downforce in the rear, especially at the expense of drag, when you set them up to rotate? Isn't downforce needed more in the front?

 

I am working on a diffuser/splitter for the rear but it's only two of us and it's all taking time........SOON

peter horvath
562-712-3270

 

Sounds like that car is gonna have some serious grip. You go peter!!!! Stamp them subbies!

 

I must admit I was doubtfull if I would like it but i was thinking of it strictly from an appearance stand point. The suprise was that you can honestly feel the differance. Now I know that such a ambigiuos statment like that won't satisfy the number crunchers but its the best I can offer . Will it improve lap times? I am SURE of it especially at a track like Willow Springs. There is a combination of turns 8 and 9 that you enter in excessive of 115 and tip toe all the way around exiting at over 90 or in Peters case 100. The added down force will certainly be a welcome attraction there as the last thing you want is " rotation " :smile: Turn 2 is another where you are flat out against the red line in 3rd, rite on the limit ,tires squeeling. It will be interesting to see what the differance is there as well. After having it about a month I have come to like the look of it especially when combined with the front splitter as it really looks like the complete package it is not just a add on. Having the pictures of the JCW race car come out about the week after we released the wing was a nice confirmation that maby we were on the rite track after all. I havent heard ANYONE call JCW rice :smile: Randy

 

I'm with you maxmini. My first impressions were based on looks and I was skeptical. But you know, it grows on you. And I have always believed that spoilers do increase downforce that holds you car better to the road. Most spoilers however are flatter and provide little downforce. According to M7, his spoiler is adjustable and can provide a good deal of downforce. All my driving so far has been on the street, although I would like to get to the track occassionally. I know it would help at the track, but I wonder if it would provide much downforce even in the full position, if I'm only going 60-70 mph or so on the byways. The faster you go the better it will work. Peter did say that it provides good help on his canyon runs, although I don't know just how fast he goes on those. Probably that fast or faster. So, it sounds like it is a good thing (as Martha Stewart would say).

 

I'd be curious to see what the actual forces are on a wing, as measured via load cells like these:

http://www.entran.com/ela.htm

You'd need at least two cells, one at the front mounting and one at the back, for a given wing. This would show the effect on both drag and downforce.