Hi all,

The wife and I drove an all4 this past weekend and loved it. We will be putting in an order in the next few months as long as everything checks out.

Question i have was about the specifications of the AWD system. Just wondering how it stacks up to others out there. I was originally looking to get a forester XT, but it's pretty boring, and isn't optioned with the same AWD as the outback/tribeca. Still capable, and fully awd, but it's the principle of the thing. If i buy a subaru i want the good stuff.

I actually liked the volvo v50 with awd, but they don't offer AWD anymore, and it's big, and expensive...

I really liked audi A3 with DSG and quattro, but its so boring looking. even with the ti package, it just doesn't do it for me. Plus, we haven't had the best luck with audi in the past.

anyway, all the above are fwd biased awd's at different percentages (volvo and audi being haldex). does anyone know what the countryman is? the salesman told me 70/30 F/R @ normal conditions, and i've seen anything from 50% - 100% of torque to the rear when needed, listed online.

It seems to be a pretty decent system, as it felt great in the test drive, and seemed to shift torque seamlessly. I just don't want something that is fully FWD and only engages the rear wheels "AFTER" slip is detected. (like awd options on mazda cx7, nissan rogue, etc)

Thanks guys, we can't wait to get into the new mini!

 

On normal driving condition is:
Front: 100%

On a slippery condition go to a max of:
Front: 50%
Back: 50%

In extremely slippery condition it can go up to:
Back: 100%

Everything is managed by the car, so u can decide when to be 50-50 or 0-100 or 100-0

Its more or less like a QUATTRO system, with the only difference that QUATTRO doesn't allow 100% on the back!

 

Watching youtube videos of a countryman playing on a snowy hill helped me to believe an AWD system really can be helpful. The vehicle did not seem to sit there and then think...oh I need power to the rear, it went pretty good, even from a standstill.

 

It uses the Haldex system, both Volvo and VW have used this on their AWD cars. It worked well in my VW R32 and worked the way you say that you don't want it to work here: "...just don't want something that is fully FWD and only engages the rear wheels "AFTER" slip is detected." The system used in this application may be more advanced and progressive based on inputs other than just the wheel speed sensors so it can anticipate slip and appear to work seamlessly- don't knock it till you try it .

http://www.haldex.com/en/North-America/

 

No, no, I'm fine with Haldex. As i said the Audi, and the volvo (as well as the r32) have haldex systems. Haldex while possibly being able to be just FWD, is a much more sophisticated system than something mazda or nissan uses (excluding the GTR or infiniti's). I've read into the Haldex system and was very impressed. Haledex is proactive IE. Accelerating from a start, the awd will already be sending torque to the rear wheels, as that is where the weight will be etc. I just didn't want something reactive, IE. having the front wheels spin while accelerating and "then" transferring torque.

Thanks for the input everyone!

edit, these people seems to know what they are talking about. saying it's an AWD system of its own, and can indeed send 100% torque to the rear wheels if you disable the DSC. http://www.windingroad.com/articles/...yman-cooper-s/#

 

Well the ALL4 system is not a haldex system....

The ALL4 system is:

 

^ This is why i posted. So much mis-information flowing around the internet.

http://www.gkndriveline.com/drivelin...icle_0041.html

As far as how performance oriented the AWD system is, it seems as it is dependent on Mini's DSC.

The ECMD is an electromagnetically controlled clutch attached to the MINI Countryman ALL4’s rear final drive, EMCD works with the vehicle’s Dynamic Stability Control (DSC) system and apportions front/rear power bias as needed to ensure the optimum traction dynamic.

Other vehicles which use GKN's EMCD are the Nissan GTR and Inifiniti FX35. So it would seem to be a vary capable device, again, i'm guessing dependent on mini's DSC telling it what to do.

 

All this technical talk is making my head hurt! So ECMD is a good thing then?

 

You want a head spinner - - - We're buying an English car manufactured in Austria that uses a Japaneese clutch thingy manufactred in Italy that is controled by software from Germany to perform optimally on roads in America. Good thing we all talk the same language.

 

For the record, I don't know a lot about the technical side of things. But driving one for the last couple weeks in the rain in Portland I've been really impressed.

In my 03' MCS, I'll generally have a little wheel spin every time I accelerate from a stop in wet conditions. The Countryman S All4 has been amazing. It really seems like it gets the power where it needs to be when it needs it. We have a steep driveway and I'm able to tear up it with the All4 in a way my MCS never could. Never any lag at all. I've never really considered what the system was doing, it just always seems to do the right thing.

I've also noticed in cornering that it does a great job of distributing the power. We've got a cloverleaf on to the freeway that while there are certainly differences with the Countryman being a little larger, but generally at the same speed as my MCS, the Countryman doesn't get the feel my MCS does where you can clearly tell that it's FWD.

I was concerned when I heard so much talk about the All4 system being one primarily for safety not performance since performance is always my primary concern. Overall, I'm really happy with the performance aspects of the All4.

When I'm out of the break in period I'll be able to tell a little better, then a few small mods to get a few more HP I think she'll be a really amazing machine.

 

This system is also good because technically it will not need any maintenance, there are no gears or parts in contacts, neither oil to change....

More information on the system, in the datasheet

http://www.gkndriveline.com/drivelin.../EMCD-engl.pdf

 

Plus if you were to get the subaru...youd be getting TERRIBLE!!!! gas mileage. Im averaging 15 MPG in my 07 Legacy 2.5 GT. I drive mostly in city though but still.

 

I just read in Roundel that it WAS a Haldex system, bad information I guess.

 

Yeah..... totally! As jaded was saying, this is the same system that they install on the GTR by Nissan.... Quattro is idraulic, this is electro-magnetic.

 

So we will be able to drag race a GTR on even terms then......

 

LOL! yea, no problem!

 

Try this on for size... Haldex-like

After all, similar concept, FWD with power dump to rear as needed.

True Audi Quattro is a permanent 4WD system with bias to the rear wheels (A3 excluded). That is a preferred system for a sports car style drive train as it will allow for more control in a race/performance application. I WISH that Mini made a JCW with RWD or true Quattro. That would be a combo to beat for performance driving.

 

Coming from lots of Audi's, OTHER than the A3 and tt (the transverse Audi's built on VW floorpans), the classic Audi longitudinal motor designs (A/S/RS 4, 5, 6, 8) have been Torsen based for a long time. A mechanical system front to back, not electronic and not reactive as many part time systems are. Torsen is classically 50:50 baseline in Audi's, though they have moved it to 60% on newer ones (starting with recent S's and RS's) to give it a more "sporty feel." Only the A3 and tt are Haldex, and really a different system than classic quattro even though the same branding is used. Side to side diff's on an Audi have relied on the brake based systems since mid 90's; before that they were manual tranny only set ups and the front and rear diffs were also lockable. Torsen is a somewhat heavy system in general, but (like Suburu's) a lot more robust than many of the part time, Silicone clutch pack and electro based stuff. Newest tweak found first with Acura SH- systems and now getting into various others (Audi's included) are adding some brake control to the driven wheels in non-slip conditions to enhance driving feel.

The practical tougher traction test often comes when you find if the system can propel with how many wheels getting traction--tough inclined driveways on ice, stuck in the mud at side of road, etc. The best can take that down to one. More than a few have problems if traction is lost on a whole side, in which case front to rear only doesn't do it with open diff to the side. The performance part can come when you look at time it takes to "react" (for the non-always on systems)--kind of scary when car companies (say, Porsche for the Panamera as just one) quote seemingly fast "reaction" times like 1/10 second) and you realize at 60MPH that is essentially a full tire revolution. If (over)driven at speed in marginal conditions--as AWD cars not infrequently are--that can be a pretty nasty discovery as the vehicle spin rotation starts before the system kicks in to try to correct what gets out of hand very fast at speed and low traction. CM owners will have to chime in with real world experience with either of these tougher tests. I have little doubt it will handle the everyday wet and slush stuff as well as the better Audis, Suburus and various others, or many run of the mill part time FWD systems like Toyota, Chrysler and a pretty long list too.

 

Thank you! I am glad to see the ALL4 isn't a brand new in-house unproven system.

 

I'm not a professional driver, just an enthusiast that has done a few AutoX and TSD Rally, and RallyX with my old 2001 Subaru 2.5RS that I've owned for 10 years, and I can honestly you that on the street, the All4's system perform similarly with less weight and better fuel efficiency... but don't expect a torque vectoring STI level AWD system.

With anything you'll encounter while street driving, the All4 performs remarkably well.

 

Absolutely Brilliant ...

 

Sig-worthy, even.