Sorry to beat a dead horse.
None of the other threads answered the question i had

I have some Buddy Club P1 SF wheels i just put on
i'm getting some vibration

so i know i need hubcentric rings
question is what size?

don't know the centerbore of the P1 SF's (guess i need to call buddy club)

but i read on another thread that the correct size rings are
73mm outside diameter / 56.15 inside diameter?

is this universal? it won't matter what wheels you put on, these will fit for all?

thanks,
DR

 

Someone will correct me if I'm wrong.

The inner diameter of the ring is universal for the MINI 56.15 (at least for Gen2). The outer diameter is unique to the bore of the wheel you are putting on.

It was my understanding that the hub rings are for installation ease and are NOT for driving centering, that is what the lug nuts are for. The vibration must be something else. Balance?

Good luck.

 

thanks for the prompt response

i only get wobbily around 70+

it didn't do it when i had the s-lites on it

i'll call up my buddy to confirm he had them balanced (he's been running them on his honda fit for a while) i'm pretty sure he did he's a mechanic

i'll have to find out the center bore on the buddy clubs

thanks for clearing up the inner/outer part for me

-DR

 

Yep... the lugs on our cars are supposed to be self-centering... while you can get hubcentric rings, I suspect your shimmy is coming from somewhere else - make sure your wheels/tires were road force balanced - not just spin balanced.

 

^
will do

 

I run 5x114.3mm drag racing rims/tires vs. the 5x115 mm stock bolt pattern on my Dodge Charger when I am at the track. The hub size is also different supposedly requiring hubcentric rings. I drive 40 minutes to the track one way and get up to 120 MPH on the drag strip with no vibration. Like someone said the lug holes are beveled and center your rim on your hub.

I bought some aftermarket 17X7.5" rims for my Clubman S which is now on a boat to the US. They came from tirerack with hubcentric rings. Don't know if they are necessary.

 

i just called up buddyclub they said the center bore of the wheel is 73mm

so the 73mm outside diameter / 56.15 inside diameter hubcentric rings will fit perfect.

thanks guys
-DR

 

what is this "road force balanced" you speak of? I've had the same issue since getting new tires almost 6 months ago. Having addressed just about every other possibility, (balanced tires, checked entire suspension system, rebalanced tires, etc. ) we (I, service advisor, other smart people I know) conclude the cause is from one or more of said tires. alas, tire shop seems to have peanut butter for brains and instead of conceding, replacing the tires and passing the loss back to the tire manufacturer, they'd rather rebalance my tires everytime i go in...

story for the rant/thread jack. short version/answer "tires? perhaps?"

 

I do not believe cars with hub centric wheels are centered with the lugs/bolts.
I know that the case for the AK MONZA wheels. I purchased the wheels in 2003. Without the rings there is a shimmey. With the rings the car is smooth as glass. I have had the wheels first on my 03 MC and then on my 06 using three makes of tires. When I purchased the wheels I was told by the dealer I would need the rings.
John

 

i found the rings for like 32 or 36 bucks shipped from 1010tires

 

Good thing you ordered them. You should never run without hubcentric rings and never run with spacers that eliminate the hub ring.

 

Its a computer balance analasys. We measure the run out of the wheels, how round they are. Then the tire's spring resistance is measured.

You match the lowest part of the wheel with the strongest (the force it pushes back against being deflected) part of the tire. then the computer spins the combo and tells you exactly how much weight and exactly where to put it.

The computer then spint tests everything.

GSP9700.com

 

awesome MS Paint diagram lol

 

Agreed!

Alex

 

Thanks, I try.

 

There was a discussion bearing on this issue a while back, but I can't find it now. But I seem to recall that the conclusion of that discussion (which made sense to me) was that the hubcentric rings do not bear any (or very little) of the force that the wheels exert on the hub. As Blimey says, the tapered bore of the wheels center the wheel (not the ring). If the ring were taking some pounding from the wheel, wouldn't the plastic centering rings disintegrate pretty quickly?

 

I have a set of CenterLine RPM 17x7 wheels that are supposed to be "hub-centric" wheels, or so the guy at CenterLine claimed. When the guys at Sullivan’s Tires went to mount tires on them and put them on the car, they asked for hub rings. I told them "hub-centric" and they were skeptical. I had them hand torque the wheels to 103 ft. lbs.

Shortly thereafter, I drove the 350 miles to Los Angeles. Halfway there I started to notice vibration in the steering wheel, as is typical of imbalanced wheels. Discount Tires in Santa Monica balanced them and suggested hub rings. They didn't have any, so I didn't bother. Wheels torqued to 103. No vibrations at flow of traffic speeds (often 80 mph) on the 10 Freeway.

Drove home from Los Angeles and the vibrations returned sometime during the trip. Ordered some aluminum hub rings online for $15. Installed them myself, torqued the lugs to 103. Haven't had any vibrations from them since. Have driven to Los Angeles at least once, and San Jose several times.

 

Im sorry but I think you are in error. The hub centers the wheel and distributes the downward force from the car. That is why it is called hub centric. The lug bolts are there to keep the wheel mated to the hub assembly.
On some cars the lugs perform both functions. The hubcentric solution is a stronger as the force is distributed over a greater area.
Running a MINI without wheels made to the correct hub size or hub centric rings will result in the lug bolts streching and their eventual failure. If you have driven a MINI on wheels that are not made for the car and those wheels did not have the rings for a number of miles it would be a good idea to replace the lug bolts.

With respect to the pounding on plastic or metal rings. Metal rings are superior to plastic for heat loads. That said plastics are very strong and work well for day to day use. Metal rings idealy would be the same alloy as the wheels. If not the electron transfer between dis-simular metals might have a long term effect on the finnish of the wheels. Very hard materials break easier than soft materials. For racing you want alloy rings due to heat.
John

 

The tollerance is tight between the stub axel and the ring. If it was loose, then the abuse of driving could affect the rings intgerity. Melting due to heat, or pinching during instalation are their most common demise.

On needing rings - Most modern vehicles are hub centric, for a variety of very good reason from the factory. I'd keep everything that way.

Alex

 

well said

 

OK - I stand corrected.

 

I'm not sure about that. I have an old Lotus that's lug-centric and not hub-centric. You just have to make sure you tighten them in steps (which you should probably do anyway). I'd try that for those of you get vibration... torque the entire pattern to 30 lbs, then go back and do it at 60, then 89. When you tighten the bolts or nuts, you are causing a major increase in friction between the parallel surfaces on the hub and wheel. This, when combined with the shear loading on the bolts or studs, is what I believe holds the wheels on.

*Warning, Heavy Engineering Content*
The is no way to make a single wheel perfectly match up in all 4 lug holes and the centering ring, much less an entire production line of them. Geometric dimensioning and tolerancing (GD&T) is used to ensure under all circumstances, every 'pin' will fit in every hole. In our case, every hub will fit in every wheel. Most wheels are cast or forged so when you start machining the important surfaces and features, you start with a rough part. You then fixture the wheel by holding some part of this rough casting. The casting may be plus or minus .050 or .100". Once you find the rough center, you'll mill or bore it out to the correct diameter. Tolerancing on this feature will dictate how well your centering on the hub. Depending on the machine and how tight the manufacture specced tolerancing, you could be 2.208 +.005 -.000. This means the size of the hole can be .005 larger than the nominal but never be less than it. Likewise on the hub, it might be specced at +.000 and - .005. This way, they will always fit. When comparing extremes, if both were seen at maximum material condition (smallest hole, biggest pin), there would be no clearance and the wheel would be a slip-fit to a slight press fit on the hub. At the other extreme (least material condition for both), you would have .010 of clearance between the two. FYI, on bearing surfaces, tolerances may be as tight as +.0002, -.0000. The tighter a tolerance you ask for, the more expensive it gets to produce. Once you have the center hole, you then need to make the lug holes. Their dimensions will be tied back to the center hole as the bolt circle must be concentric to that new hub mating surface. There's some tolerance to that value. They will also have to be tied to each other with a tolerance. Then, there's the actual tolerance on the hole size. In order to get the studs to line up under all conditions, the holes will need to be larger by a value that depends on these three tolerances. We're talking .025 to .050 larger. If you're using a centering ring, there's tolerancing in them so they can always slide over the hub and into your wheels. That brings additional slop. In the end, you're wheel is most likely shifted off and only one part of it is hitting the centering ring.

 

I don't use hubcentric rings on my street / rain tires. Never had an issue.

I use my street wheels/tires for errands, driving to/from the track, and wet track sessions. Its the friction between the wheel and hub that holds the wheel in place. Proper torque of lugs / stud-nuts is critical. If you have vibration issues the tire/wheel is not balanced. Or you have shot bushings.

Alan

 

I agree that this is a good idea, and close to what I do myself. I tighten opposing lug bolts (as though I were tightening head bolts). I don't measure the stages, but start at finger tight while holding the 17mm socket. Then mildly tight with the torque wrench not clicking. Finally, to torque spec.

I doubt you will find many tire places willing to tighten in stages. At best, you can get them to use a torque wrench, but they just work their way around the wheel.

 

Interesting points and discussion!

There are really two issues being discussed: (a) centering the wheel, and (b) holding the wheels in place.

Assuming that what everyone is relating is accurate, then it seems the wheel may be centered by the hub (with a ring if necessary) or by the lugs. If either one is not machined with sufficient accuracy then the wheel may not get centered properly and may vibrate.

So, even if one has tapered lug holes (to aid centering), if the holes are not located and machined properly then the wheel may not center properly. If one uses a hub ring that does not fit snugly or is not perfect in shape, then the wheel may not be centered properly.

As for holding the wheel in place, for sure the friction between the wheel face and hub, the lug bolts as well as the hub rings all contribute something to keeping the wheel from moving out of place. In what proportions? I don't know. But as Nabeshin and DaCrema nicely describe/illustrate, the hub "nub" takes a sufficient amount of the shear force to prevent shearing off of the lug bolts.

Whew, sorry, I'm thinking "out loud."