Drivetrain The enthusiasts break-in
The enthusiasts break-in
Im posting a break-in thread in the mods section bc yall know the car better than anyone! So i thought i would ask how you all went about breaking in the car... Thanks!!!
Then did a few 2nd and 3rd gear pulls to the redline....after which I just let the revs and speed come back down on their own...no brake, no shifting. Motor broken in. Then took it on a road trip, bout 1k miles when it was all said and done. Changed the oil when I returned.
Took it easy on clutch, brakes, tires though for a few hundred miles.
Some of the people here would prob cringe at my method...but I'm a firm believer of the "hard" break-in!
Last edited by ThumperMCS; Mar 5, 2009 at 10:40 PM.
Banned
Joined: Oct 2008
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i think i did a burn out 10 min after driving away from the dealer but it was raining. i had to get it out of my system. other than that i took an easy tried to keep it under 4500 rpm not to hard. then changed the oil at 2g
I'm a firm believer that if you panty it when new it will always run like a panty. At 25K miles now I'm glad I broke it in "hard" as it's one strong running 2nd gen MCS. I had used oil analysis done at 15K miles and everything looked great. At the end of the day it's your car so break it in how you are most comfortable.
I'm a firm believer that if you panty it when new it will always run like a panty. At 25K miles now I'm glad I broke it in "hard" as it's one strong running 2nd gen MCS. I had used oil analysis done at 15K miles and everything looked great. At the end of the day it's your car so break it in how you are most comfortable.
5th Gear
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 603
Likes: 1
From: Aventura, Florida
Low RPM high cylinder pressure, don't rev the crap out of the motor but make sure to put some cylinder pressure into it so the rings seat, I did this for 1500-3000 miles before getting my first oil change done. Honestly most modern motors are already broken in within the first few miles, I just like my method.
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5th Gear
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 609
Likes: 1
From: Woodbridge VA
search is your friend.
ad-nausium
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...n-process.html
specificly:
http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm
So.. Did anyone take a peek at the above link?
<snip>
Yeah - But ...
the owner's manual says to break it in easy ...
Notice that this technique isn't "beating" on the engine, but rather taking a purposeful, methodical approach to sealing the rings. The logic to this method is sound. However, some will have a hard time with this approach, since it seems to "go against the grain".
The argument for an easy break-in is usually: "that's what the manual says" ....
Or more specifically: "there are tight parts in the engine and you might do damage or even seize it if you run it hard."
Consider this:
Due to the vastly improved metal casting and machining technologies which are now used, tight parts in new engines are not normal. A manufacturing mistake causing a tight clearance is an extremely rare occurrence these days. But, if there is something wrong with the engine clearances from the factory, no amount of gentle running will fix the problem.
The real reason ???
So why do all the owner's manuals say to take it easy for the first
thousand miles ???
This is a good question ...
Q: What is the most common cause of engine problems ???
A: Failure to:
Warm the engine up completely before running it hard !!!
Q: What is the second most common cause of engine problems ???
A: An easy break in !!!
Because, when the rings don't seal well, the blow-by gasses contaminate the oil with acids and other harmful combustion by-products !!
Ironically, an "easy break in" is not at all what it seems. By trying to "protect" the engine, the exact opposite happens, as leaky rings continue to contaminate your engine oil for the rest of the life of your engine !!
</snip>
I suggest you check that page out for more pix.
ad-nausium
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...n-process.html
specificly:
http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm
<snip>
I wrote "Break-In Secrets" after successfully applying this method
to approximately 300 new engines, all without any problems whatsoever.
Links to this article now appear on hundreds of motorsports discussion forums from all over the world. The reason is that over time, large numbers of people have done a direct comparison between my method and the owner's manual method, and the news of their success is spreading rapidly.
The results are always the same... a dramatic increase in power at all RPMs. In addition, many professional mechanics have disassembled engines that have used this method, to find that the condition of the engine is much better than when the owner's manual break-in method has been used.
The thing that makes this page so controversial is that there have been many other break-in articles
written in the past which will contradict what has been written here.
Several factors make the older information on break-in obsolete.
The biggest factor is that engine manufacturers now use a much finer honing pattern in the cylinders than they once did. This in turn changes the break-in requirements, because as you're about to learn, the window of opportunity for achieving an exceptional ring seal is much smaller with
newer engines than it was with the older "rough honed" engines.
In addition, there is a lot less heat build up in the cylinders from ring friction
due to the finer honing pattern used in modern engines.
The other factors that have changed are the vastly improved metal casting and machining
technologies which are now used. This means that the "wearing in" of the new parts
involves significantly less friction and actual wear than it did in the distant past.
With that in mind ...
to approximately 300 new engines, all without any problems whatsoever.
Links to this article now appear on hundreds of motorsports discussion forums from all over the world. The reason is that over time, large numbers of people have done a direct comparison between my method and the owner's manual method, and the news of their success is spreading rapidly.
The results are always the same... a dramatic increase in power at all RPMs. In addition, many professional mechanics have disassembled engines that have used this method, to find that the condition of the engine is much better than when the owner's manual break-in method has been used.
The thing that makes this page so controversial is that there have been many other break-in articles
written in the past which will contradict what has been written here.
Several factors make the older information on break-in obsolete.
The biggest factor is that engine manufacturers now use a much finer honing pattern in the cylinders than they once did. This in turn changes the break-in requirements, because as you're about to learn, the window of opportunity for achieving an exceptional ring seal is much smaller with
newer engines than it was with the older "rough honed" engines.
In addition, there is a lot less heat build up in the cylinders from ring friction
due to the finer honing pattern used in modern engines.
The other factors that have changed are the vastly improved metal casting and machining
technologies which are now used. This means that the "wearing in" of the new parts
involves significantly less friction and actual wear than it did in the distant past.
With that in mind ...
What's The Best Way To Break-In A New Engine ??
The Short Answer: Run it Hard !
Why ??
Nowadays, the piston ring seal is really what the break in process is all about. Contrary to popular belief, piston rings don't seal the combustion pressure by spring tension. Ring tension is necessary only to "scrape" the oil to prevent it from entering the combustion chamber.
If you think about it, the ring exerts maybe 5-10 lbs of spring tension against the cylinder wall ...
How can such a small amount of spring tension seal against thousands of
PSI (Pounds Per Square Inch) of combustion pressure ??
Of course it can't.
How Do Rings Seal Against Tremendous Combustion Pressure ??
From the actual gas pressure itself !! It passes over the top of the ring, and gets behind it to force it outward against the cylinder wall. The problem is that new rings are far from perfect and they must be worn in quite a bit in order to completely seal all the way around the bore. If the gas pressure is strong enough during the engine's first miles of operation (open that throttle !!!), then the entire ring will wear into
the cylinder surface, to seal the combustion pressure as well as possible.
The Problem With "Easy Break In" ...
The honed crosshatch pattern in the cylinder bore acts like a file to allow the rings to wear. The rings quickly wear down the "peaks" of this roughness, regardless of how hard the engine is run.
There's a very small window of opportunity to get the rings to seal really well ... the first 20 miles !!
If the rings aren't forced against the walls soon enough, they'll use up the roughness before they fully seat. Once that happens there is no solution but to re hone the cylinders, install new rings and start over again.
Fortunately, most new sportbike owners can't resist the urge to "open it up" once or twice,
which is why more engines don't have this problem !!
An additional factor that you may not have realized, is that the person at the dealership who set up your bike probably blasted your brand new bike pretty hard on the "test run". So, without realizing it, that adrenaline crazed set - up mechanic actually did you a huge favor !!
The Short Answer: Run it Hard !
Why ??
Nowadays, the piston ring seal is really what the break in process is all about. Contrary to popular belief, piston rings don't seal the combustion pressure by spring tension. Ring tension is necessary only to "scrape" the oil to prevent it from entering the combustion chamber.
If you think about it, the ring exerts maybe 5-10 lbs of spring tension against the cylinder wall ...
How can such a small amount of spring tension seal against thousands of
PSI (Pounds Per Square Inch) of combustion pressure ??
Of course it can't.
How Do Rings Seal Against Tremendous Combustion Pressure ??
From the actual gas pressure itself !! It passes over the top of the ring, and gets behind it to force it outward against the cylinder wall. The problem is that new rings are far from perfect and they must be worn in quite a bit in order to completely seal all the way around the bore. If the gas pressure is strong enough during the engine's first miles of operation (open that throttle !!!), then the entire ring will wear into
the cylinder surface, to seal the combustion pressure as well as possible.
The Problem With "Easy Break In" ...
The honed crosshatch pattern in the cylinder bore acts like a file to allow the rings to wear. The rings quickly wear down the "peaks" of this roughness, regardless of how hard the engine is run.
There's a very small window of opportunity to get the rings to seal really well ... the first 20 miles !!
If the rings aren't forced against the walls soon enough, they'll use up the roughness before they fully seat. Once that happens there is no solution but to re hone the cylinders, install new rings and start over again.
Fortunately, most new sportbike owners can't resist the urge to "open it up" once or twice,
which is why more engines don't have this problem !!
An additional factor that you may not have realized, is that the person at the dealership who set up your bike probably blasted your brand new bike pretty hard on the "test run". So, without realizing it, that adrenaline crazed set - up mechanic actually did you a huge favor !!
Yeah - But ...
the owner's manual says to break it in easy ...
Notice that this technique isn't "beating" on the engine, but rather taking a purposeful, methodical approach to sealing the rings. The logic to this method is sound. However, some will have a hard time with this approach, since it seems to "go against the grain".
The argument for an easy break-in is usually: "that's what the manual says" ....
Or more specifically: "there are tight parts in the engine and you might do damage or even seize it if you run it hard."
Consider this:
Due to the vastly improved metal casting and machining technologies which are now used, tight parts in new engines are not normal. A manufacturing mistake causing a tight clearance is an extremely rare occurrence these days. But, if there is something wrong with the engine clearances from the factory, no amount of gentle running will fix the problem.
The real reason ???
So why do all the owner's manuals say to take it easy for the first
thousand miles ???
This is a good question ...
Q: What is the most common cause of engine problems ???
A: Failure to:
Warm the engine up completely before running it hard !!!
Q: What is the second most common cause of engine problems ???
A: An easy break in !!!
Because, when the rings don't seal well, the blow-by gasses contaminate the oil with acids and other harmful combustion by-products !!
Ironically, an "easy break in" is not at all what it seems. By trying to "protect" the engine, the exact opposite happens, as leaky rings continue to contaminate your engine oil for the rest of the life of your engine !!
A Picture's Worth A Thousand Words:
The piston on the right was broken in as
per MotoMan's instructions.
After a full season of hard racing:
- Perfect Ring Seal ...
- No Scuffing ...
- Lots of Trophies !!!
These Honda F3 pistons show
the difference.
Although these pistons came out of engines which were raced for a full season, they weren't set-up with any special clearances or other preparation.
These engines were never worked on prior to being raced. They were totally stock as built by Honda.
The only difference was the break in method they used...
The one on the right was broken in as per MotoMan's instructions.
The one on the left was broken in exactly according to the owner's manual. The resulting leaky rings have allowed pressure to "blow by" down into the crankcase on acceleration, and oil to "suck-up" into the combustion chamber on deceleration.
Needless to say, this bike was slow !!
It's up to you:
The loss in power from an easy break-in and the resulting poor ring seal can be
anywhere from 2% - 10% !!
In other words:
The gain in power from using this break-in method can be anywhere from 2% - 10% !!
The piston on the right was broken in as
per MotoMan's instructions.
After a full season of hard racing:
- Perfect Ring Seal ...
- No Scuffing ...
- Lots of Trophies !!!
These Honda F3 pistons show
the difference.
Although these pistons came out of engines which were raced for a full season, they weren't set-up with any special clearances or other preparation.
These engines were never worked on prior to being raced. They were totally stock as built by Honda.
The only difference was the break in method they used...
The one on the right was broken in as per MotoMan's instructions.
The one on the left was broken in exactly according to the owner's manual. The resulting leaky rings have allowed pressure to "blow by" down into the crankcase on acceleration, and oil to "suck-up" into the combustion chamber on deceleration.
Needless to say, this bike was slow !!
It's up to you:
The loss in power from an easy break-in and the resulting poor ring seal can be
anywhere from 2% - 10% !!
In other words:
The gain in power from using this break-in method can be anywhere from 2% - 10% !!
I suggest you check that page out for more pix.
My Porsche SA told me that their engines are fully dynoed and tested before installing on their new cars. Then, many of their new cars are also tracked tested after assembly. Guess there is one car manufacturer that seems to use this technique.
They rolled a turbo motor right past me that had just finished...gave off lots of heat 
Another interesting tidbit...the difference between a GT3RS motor and GT3 motor is nothing, they are both the same 3.6L engine...however, they dyno test each one and the stronger ones are then used in the GT3RS and the rest stay in the GT3's.Also, Mercedes Benz track tests all the AMG cars immediately after they come off the line...and test the normal cars at random intervals.
Last edited by ThumperMCS; Mar 6, 2009 at 07:34 PM.
Yup, been to the Porsche factory in Zuffenhausen and saw the engine dyno room. They rolled a turbo motor right past me that had just finished...gave off lots of heat Another interesting tidbit...the difference between a GT3RS motor and GT3 motor is nothing, they are both the same 3.6L engine...however, they dyno test each one and the stronger ones are then used in the GT3RS and the rest stay in the GT3's.
Also, Mercedes Benz track tests all the AMG cars immediately after they come off the line...and test the normal cars at random intervals.
They rolled a turbo motor right past me that had just finished...gave off lots of heat Another interesting tidbit...the difference between a GT3RS motor and GT3 motor is nothing, they are both the same 3.6L engine...however, they dyno test each one and the stronger ones are then used in the GT3RS and the rest stay in the GT3's.Also, Mercedes Benz track tests all the AMG cars immediately after they come off the line...and test the normal cars at random intervals.
Does AMG dyno their engines?
3rd Gear
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 152
Likes: 1
From: Colorado Springs, CO
The MotoMan link MINIspud provided is #1. Run it HARD. That's how I broke in my Ariel Atom and my MINI. MINI is doing great. 33 AVG MPG and 177hp 210tq. .... or, follow the Owners Manual if you believe that everthing that comes out of BMW's mouth is the word of god.
The MotoMan link MINIspud provided is #1. Run it HARD. That's how I broke in my Ariel Atom and my MINI. MINI is doing great. 33 AVG MPG and 177hp 210tq. .... or, follow the Owners Manual if you believe that everthing that comes out of BMW's mouth is the word of god.
3rd Gear
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 152
Likes: 1
From: Colorado Springs, CO
The Atom had 5 miles on it from the Factory. I did in fact follow the non-synthetic procedure and broke in the engine on a dyno. The MINI already had 11 miles on it... so I just drove it hard and changed the oil after 1200 miles.
Yeah i've read the whole article that motoman wrote a couple times. But i was basically posting to see what kind of results you all were having.
I know i wont be able to resist the urge to give it a little bit though. I dont think im capable of going a thousand miles without getting on it hard a single time. I havent done that since i started driving.
I know i wont be able to resist the urge to give it a little bit though. I dont think im capable of going a thousand miles without getting on it hard a single time. I havent done that since i started driving.
Rings seat in 300 miles or less. Thats the only part of the engine that needs broken in. The mineral oil is suggested for break in because it suspends debris from the rings better than the synthetic does. I use Castrol diesel oil for break ins.
This thread
got me thinking, so I had an oil analysis done and attached my scan gauge.
Instead of following the Mini advice on oil change frequency, I did my first change at 10k.
scan0001.pdf
This is the report. The red areas are not accurate due to the synthetic oil. They are actually normal, as is the rest of the report.
My scan guage is giving me upper 190s for HP (brake). I posted above how I approached the break in, and would do the same going forward. The evidence of hard break in with pictures of burnt motor cycle pistons doesn't convince me otherwise. What I would do different is change the oil within the first few K and each 4 or 5 k afterwards.
The Mini suggested interval is WAY TOO LONG.
Instead of following the Mini advice on oil change frequency, I did my first change at 10k.
scan0001.pdf
This is the report. The red areas are not accurate due to the synthetic oil. They are actually normal, as is the rest of the report.
My scan guage is giving me upper 190s for HP (brake). I posted above how I approached the break in, and would do the same going forward. The evidence of hard break in with pictures of burnt motor cycle pistons doesn't convince me otherwise. What I would do different is change the oil within the first few K and each 4 or 5 k afterwards.
The Mini suggested interval is WAY TOO LONG.
This is why i believe people change their oil after about a thousand miles. All that metal in the oil can't be good for the engine. It also looks like you may not have run it hard enough during the break in period with the fuel being present in the oil. Is this a safe assumption??
I got my car on tuesday and i have about 200 miles on mine right now. I've been taking it easy mostly, but i still get deep in the revs at times. I redlined it yesterday for the first time. It felt strong. Any recommendations??
I got my car on tuesday and i have about 200 miles on mine right now. I've been taking it easy mostly, but i still get deep in the revs at times. I redlined it yesterday for the first time. It felt strong. Any recommendations??
I spoke with the company that did the analysis and asked for clarification on the numbers. The oxidation and nitration are not valid numbers. The synthetic oil doesn't allow for an accurate test. The other numbers, including fuel is completely normal for a first oil change.
You need to make your own decisions about break in proceedure. I think moderate is a good way to go. The evidence to the contrary is not convincing to me. Minispud does an extensize cut and paste from one source who is a motorcycle racer and is also trying to sell a book about motorcycle break in proceedure. (It reminds me of a shamwow comercial)
If the idea is to make the metal surfaces mate, why is 6000 rpms better then 4500. CNC machines don't use speeds that high to cut metal. Color me conservative, but my car is registering the power that a strong engine should and I used 4500 rpms as my magic number for 1000 miles. Lots of quick excelerations, but backed off at 4.5K.
I plan to do another oil analysis at next oil change and will post it.
I would be interested in a few test results from run it hard types to see their first oil change results. So far lots of bravado and no tests.
You need to make your own decisions about break in proceedure. I think moderate is a good way to go. The evidence to the contrary is not convincing to me. Minispud does an extensize cut and paste from one source who is a motorcycle racer and is also trying to sell a book about motorcycle break in proceedure. (It reminds me of a shamwow comercial)
If the idea is to make the metal surfaces mate, why is 6000 rpms better then 4500. CNC machines don't use speeds that high to cut metal. Color me conservative, but my car is registering the power that a strong engine should and I used 4500 rpms as my magic number for 1000 miles. Lots of quick excelerations, but backed off at 4.5K.
I plan to do another oil analysis at next oil change and will post it.
I would be interested in a few test results from run it hard types to see their first oil change results. So far lots of bravado and no tests.
. But, its probably faster because of it 
!
1st Gear
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 37
Likes: 0
The engine builder for the built short block in my Z told me this for engine break-in:
For the first 1000 miles:
-Don't boost past 5psi (the stock boost on the Z is 9.5psi)
-Vary your revs
-Don't rev past 5000RPM (red-line is ~7000RPM)
-Don't use synthetic oil (I used Castrol HD 30)
-Change oil at 100 miles and change oil again at 1000 miles
I'm doing the same with the Mini, except for the whole "don't boost past 5psi". I'm varying the RPMs, keeping the revs below 4000, and trying to keep the boosts low (without a boost gauge, this is damn near impossible so I'm trying as much as possible to prevent the wastegates from opening fully).
I read MotoMan's method many years ago and I know a few people that break-in engines that way. I haven't heard a bad thing about breaking in an engine either way. The hard-way is just not for me. I broke in my Z the easy way and it's running perfect. Also, the engines MotoMan references are motorcycle engines. I don't think they see as much load as a 4-wheel car.
For the first 1000 miles:
-Don't boost past 5psi (the stock boost on the Z is 9.5psi)
-Vary your revs
-Don't rev past 5000RPM (red-line is ~7000RPM)
-Don't use synthetic oil (I used Castrol HD 30)
-Change oil at 100 miles and change oil again at 1000 miles
I'm doing the same with the Mini, except for the whole "don't boost past 5psi". I'm varying the RPMs, keeping the revs below 4000, and trying to keep the boosts low (without a boost gauge, this is damn near impossible so I'm trying as much as possible to prevent the wastegates from opening fully).
I read MotoMan's method many years ago and I know a few people that break-in engines that way. I haven't heard a bad thing about breaking in an engine either way. The hard-way is just not for me. I broke in my Z the easy way and it's running perfect. Also, the engines MotoMan references are motorcycle engines. I don't think they see as much load as a 4-wheel car.