I originally posted this in the "Hot or Not Fuses" but saw it was a sticky so I posting it seperately.

OK - here's one that I need help with. I ran all of the wiring for my Hella 1000's this weekend. It consisted of:

Power & Ground from relay to battery
Green lead to swith from relay
Ground from switch to grounding strap on engine/chasis
Green lead from switch to accessory (more on this in a minute)
Blue power from relay to lights
Ground from lights to bolts I welded onto front bumper (I drilled thru the bumper, ground the metal bare, inserted two long bolts and then welded the bolt heads so I would just have mounting studs protruding from the rear of the front bumper beam to mount my light bracket).

I sat in the pass seat, inserted the key, and hit the ignition w/o my foot on the brake. The switch lit up, so I turned it off until I could look under the hood to make sure nothing was sparking, flaming, etc.

Anyway, once I made sure the car wasn't on fire, I went back in and turned the switch back on. NOTHING! I did seem to hear the relay click. I did this a few times, and other than hearing the relay click a few times, nothing. Then, the relay even quit clicking.

I had used an "Add-a-circuit" to the inter fuse box and tapped into the F7 (Sunroof) circuit and used a 25 amp fuse for the lights. Thinking this might not be a constant/switched circuit (at the time I didn't know it was for the sunroof - which I don't have), so I moved the add-a circuit to the radio amp circuit (F6). Still nothing.

So now I'm thinking maybe I have a bad ground.

If I swith my ground from the bumper bolt to the engine grounding strap, would that suffice?

OR, could I just ground everything to the battery to ensure it's a good ground?

Would having a bad ground on the lights affect the relay, or would the relay still turn on (click) but the lights just wouldn't work?

I hate $#&^%$%^$&*&!!! wiring!

 

The description is a bit confusing to follow. Can you draw a wiring diagram?

 

I have no clue how to do that and then post it.

My main question is; if the ground for the lights is bad, would that preclude everything from working? Or would the switch still light up, the relay operate, but the lights just not come on?

Is it acceptable to have everything (switch, relay, & lights) grounded directly from the battery?

 

Lemme see if this helps any: The system can be set up so that the lights come on with the high beams, or they can be controlled by a seperate switch which is not reliant on the headlights being on. I chose the latter, using a lighted switch to control them independantly of the main headlights.

Relay:

Red - Power (to battery)
Black - Ground (to battery)
Blue - Power to lights
Green - To either the high beam lights to signal the relay or to the switch (for my set-up, this goes to the switch)

Lights:

Blue - Power from relay
Black - Ground (can ground to anywhere on chassis)

Switch:

Black - Ground (can ground to anywhere)
Green - From relay (see above)
Green - From accessory (to trigger relay in lieu of the headlights triggering the relay - see above)

Currently I have it as follows:

Relay grounded to battery.
Switch grounded to flexible grounding strap between engine and chassis (it is attached to the engine end).
Lights grounded to stud welded to front bumper beam that mounting bracket for lights is attached to.

Would there be any issues if I just had all of the grounds go to the battery?

Maybe that will make things more clear.

 

Greg two questions.

1. What Switch are you using and can yo post a picture of it?

2. Are you sure that the Light bar bolt is actually grounded, I.E. is there paint between the bolt, connector, chassis that could be causing it not to be grounded properly?

 

Whew! I'm really glad you saw this thread as you seem to be the local "Electrical Guru".

The switch that came with the lights was blue, so I went to my local Car Quest and picked up an identical unit, only in amber. It has three male spades on the back marked "Grnd", "Pwr", and "Accy".

I connected the green wire from the relay to the "Pwr" (per the instructions that came with the lights), and the "Accy" is connected to F6 of the interior fuse box. The "Grnd" is routed to the flexible grounding cable between the engine and chassis.

When I installed the bolt, I ground the paint form the bumper beam, installed the bolt, and then welded the head to the beam. That area was then painted, but the threads protruding thru the other side were NOT painted.

The bracket (painted) is slid over the stud, then the ground wire connector is placed over the stud, with a bare nut securing it. I was hoping that the contact with the threads and nut would be enough.

If not, can I just extend that ground wire to the same place where the switch is grounded to the engine/chassis?

 

Do you have a meter? I would start by verifying the following at the relay.

Red/Black should always be at 12v.
Green/Black should be 0v with switch off, 12v with switch on.
Blue/Black should be 0v with switch off, 12v with switch on.

If all of those are okay, then the problem is with the lighting connection (probably the ground).

 

Thanks RKW - I'll give that a try. If in fact everything checks out, and it appears to be the ground, can everything be grounded at teh same spot, or could that cause issues?

 

Everything can be grounded at the same spot, although shouldn't be necessary and would take extra work. Solid grounding is more critical for electronics (e.g. stereo) to reduce noise; for lighting you mostly need to be sure that you have a ground connection at all.

 

IF you have a meter and can check resistance then i would be easier to check the ground by testing form the Light Ground wire (black) to the battery negative. it should read 0 ohms if it reads any more than a few ohms (2-3) then the ground for the light is the problem.

 

Don't ground to the battery. Ground to the chassis. Use a flathead screwdriver and "scrape" away any paint etc to make it a nice ground to a good piece of metal.

Keep the lights grounded to the beam behind the bumper and connect the power from the lights to the battery (to ensure the bulbs work properly...I assume those lights are 12v..they should be)

If the lights work now do the following:

Take your relay and connect 85 to a ground (you can use the same ground but ground wires should be as short as possible...that's why you don't run ground wires to the battery..

Next connect 30 to constant power (+ from battery with a fuse inline) keep fuse out until all done

connect 86 to both of the positive leads of the hella lights

connect 87 to one side of your switch and 87a to the other side of your switch.

If you have a powered switch (I think you do) then you will also need to ground your switch so that it can "light up". You might want to try a 2 wire switch to ensure you have it set up and then use the 3 wire switch you have afterwards.

If the two wire switch doesn't work switch the wires from 87 and 87a...but realistically 99% of the time it doesnt matter which side of the switch 87 and 87a are connected to.

Don't forget to put the fuse back in betwen the battery and 30

I know you wanted to wire to the ACC with the add a fuse but that is not suggested...you should wire directly to the battery...in fact I'd keep all the wires and the relay in the engine compartment (keep connector part facing downward if possible) and then you only need to wire from 87 and 87a into the inside of the car to the switch.

 

better make sure that relay can handle water and high heat if you're going to keep it inside of the engine compartment. I've done it before and it lasts about a year, year and a half before corrosion takes over.

The power run to your switch is only going through the switch, to the relay and controlling the relay. It will not be providing any power to the lights, so I don't see why you couldn't use an add-a-fuse.

Plus, taking positive from the battery and running that to the switch, you could end up leaving your lights on, as you will be constantly pulling power, not just pulling power when the car is turned on like you would if you used an add-a-fuse.

As said before, keep all of your ground wires as short as possible, grounding to the chassis.

and toolazy, it sounds like he has an SPST not an SPDT so he wouldn't have an 87a. And it would matter if he hooked it up ot 87 or 87a. One is on when the switch is on, the other is on when the switch is off.

Check all of your connections. Grounds are definitely the most suceptable to having issues.

Does your switch still light up?

 

Alright, I drew up a diagram of what I think your system looks like. Correct if it's wrong.

The key things to check out would be that your green wires are going to the correct places. Other then that, just check your connections.

I guess I do recommend leaving the relay in the engine bay, but make sure it can handle it. I'd even consider putting some silicone sealant on the sealant where the relay can be taken apart.

The shorter the wires, the better, for both positive and ground.

 

Thanks guys. Car's in the shop for a new DS window motor. I rewired all the grounds to the battery - still nothing. Moved the add-a-circuit - nothing. So, I was pulling the wires from the swith to see if they were getting power...and the switch broke! This was Sunday evening, so Monday morning I went by and picked up a new switch and another relay just in case. Replaced those - nothing!! This &^$%^#%^%@$#% thing is driving me crazy.

I'll give it one more try when I get it back from the dealer.

 

I think this might be your problem. Usually, when an automotive switch's contacts are labeled "power", "ground" and "accessory", the "accessory" contact goes to the accessory you're trying to energize (in your case, the relay). The "power" and "ground" contacts go to +12V and ground in the car.

This wouldn't necessary keep the lights from working, though, because when you flip the switch, the "power" and "accessory" contacts are internally joined. It shouldn't matter which one you connected to vehicle power and which one was connected to the relay, but there may be a protection diode in the switch that makes a difference.

Try reversing the "power" and "accessory" connections at your switch.

 

I really wish I had a better story to give you, but I found the problem.........................................



The fuse in the Add-A-Circuit (AAC) was bad!

But now I have another issue. All of the spots I've put the AAC in the fuse box have power all the time. What gives? Does BMW not make any of these circuits switchable with the ignition? I can only use the forward-most column of fuse spaces because if I use the column closest to the door, the panel cover won't fit. Also, it has to be one of the standard size fuses to fit the AAC.

At least they're working, but now they work even if the car's not switched on, which could mean a drained battery if I ever forget to turn them off.

Advice?

 

Switched fuses -- try one of these: F6, F7, F9, F10, F11, F13, F35, F36, F39, F40

Edit: Wrong forum. The list is for 1st gen.

 

hahahahaha... gotta love the simple answers.

 

Tried 'em all except 39 & 40 as they are on the side that wouldn't allow the panel to go back in place.

F1 is not used, but would it still have power going to it if I added the AAC?

 

There is something odd about your circuit. The electrical diagrams show those fuses to be switched, and I have posted that list for others who needed switched power, and they verified it.

 

Table quoted below is a portion from the "...Hot or Not..."
'Sticky' Thread above:
The supply circuits "...30G..." (F6, F7, F10 and F11) are switched,
but remain 'Hot' for twenty minutes or so after shutdown.

The supply circuits "...30..." (F4, F5, F8 and F9) are switched and turn off when ignition is turned off.

For Aux Lighting, you would want to use a 30 supply circuit.

For an XM-Radio Tuner, etc., a 30G would work better.

To see the whole table: <click here> and you will find other '30's as well.

Go to the 'Sticky' above and you can open photos of fuse panel showing locations.

{For a low draw to trip a solenoid, you could use F25 (7 Amp) and for high draw; use F39 (30 Amp), etc..
Your Higher Amp fuses will need a larger "Add-A-Circuit" and the Lower Amp can use the "mini Add-A-Circuit".}

 

Looking at the full table, it says that the "30" supply circuits are continuously-powered, rather than switched. Are they *all* switched, or are some of them continuous?

How about one of the "15" supply circuits (F29-33 & F42)? Those all look like circuits that would be switched, and the table doesn't say anything about them being delayed.

 

You may be correct on "continious" for the 30's

The "15" Supply Circuits (F29-F33, F42) may be a better choice, I do know that F42 (cigar lighter) switches off with ignition.

 

Yeah, I was going to say that the Footwell Module and Central Locking both work without the car being switched on.

I'll keep playing around with it. I just have to be aware of the location to ensure the panel cover still fits. I may have to switch to a "mini" AAC (which I hate because I paid almost $20!!! for my AAC).

 

Doh! Sorry, the switched fuses I listed were for 1st gen. I got confused about which forum this thread is in.