I have been sound proofing my justapooper r50 with some edead 80. thus far I have done doors and boot floor and I am not very pumped. i've used about 20sqft and the road noise on the highway is still... eh... road noise. / / / / what's the best spot to proof, to cut down on the road noise? according to edead, I need to hit the inner firewall, floor pan and maybe my wheel wells(if that's feasible for the mini). I believe it, but I am having a hell of a time getting the carpet up in the front. must I remove the front seats and panel/skirt that runs along the floor to get all the carpet up? is it worth is to proof over the rubbery stuff on the inner firewall? is there a thread on how to do this? am I wasting my time?! / / / / / seems like every time I try to fix a few things on my mini, I just end up with a few broken yellow clips in my hand! yeehaw

 

Probably the easiest and most effective is the wheel wells - do the inside parts (i.e. the parts NOT exposed to the wheel) so that they are invisible when reinstalled.

Be aware though if you do the front wheel wells - you will want to only cover the rear-facing portion, because when you open the bonnet, the top and front-facing parts of the wells are visible. Besides, you only really care about the noise going into the cabin, right?

 

do you have the runflats? from what ive heard non-RF are quite... *shrug*

 

Another key area is under the back seat... which is easy to pull.

 

Yeah, tires have a lot to do with it.

To get up the carpet you do have to take the seats out and the interior sill trim. I've never done it, but that seems like a good first step.

Before my speaker and amp installation I got a bunch of the various panel clips from the dealer to be ready for the broken ones.

 

excuse my newbishness....

i do have run flats.... they are particularly loud?? i know they're particularly uncomfortable! i suppose that's the price that comes with being able to install JCW exhaust on justapoops.. discomfort with run flats, comfort with permanently removing your spare and replacing it with a dual exhaust upgrade.

yes, that was a joke.

on another note... it seems like every other piece of plastic/panel in my pooper seems to rattle. i have remedied most of the bigger nuisances with some male and female velcro, usually applied to the bigger panels and a few other places. but stuff like the freekin dash center piece and the moonroof control place love to snap and clap and pop amd what have you, every time i run over a stringbean with my fantastically responsive runflats . hardy har.

has anyone come across any quick fix for those smaller things that like to move around and make my european coupe sound like a european soup can? every morning i have to convince myself to put the caulk gun down and accept the quirks of my unique jams. but seriously... a solution that is both a/ effective and b/ removable/temporary/non-permanent.

yo, i appreciate your helps. i am going to post videos of some of my haphazard mini mods one of these days.

 

sorry... so has anyone done the inner firewall? when i started ripping up the floor muff, it revealed foamy/thick rubber. i worried that applying the proofer to the rubb (as opposed to direct chassis) would be less effective. true? yes?

thanks

 

If your dash rattles by the windshield, stuff a long strip of 1"x1" home window aircon insulation foam into the crack between the dash and the windshield. You can stuff it down so it's almost hidden, it will stop the rattles over rough road and expansion joints, but still be removable.

For the rest of the creaks, take the dash cover, and painted facades off and use Durapore™ tape on all of the edges where plastic to plastic contact occurs. Tear off all the felt tape that the factory or dealer put on in an attempt to silence the car. If you are careful about applying the durapore, none of it will show when you put it back together. It helps to tear the tape down the middle so you have a clean edge (the normal edges are jagged.) Once you get ahold of the tape, you will see what I mean.

 

For the dash rattles, a piece of 3/8" fuel hose also works well, and seems to last longer than foam, which eventually squishes and becomes less effective.

Edge: Re. the wheel wells, are you talking about doing the dynamat job on the inside of the plastic fender liner, or on the outside of the sheet metal of the cabin? Or both?

What approach works best for the road noise?

 

Inside of the plastic fender liner.

Here's mine. Oh yeah, and I did the back of my rear license plate too (along with much of the inside of the car heh).

Note that the one on the left is only partially covered. That's one of the front wheel wheel liners (I think it's hte passenger side). I figured out how much I could cover while not exposing it when the bonnet is open. You can't even tell it's there now.

The one on the right is the passenger side rear - as you can see, I covered almost all of it.

I was working on a tight timeline as my MINI was at the dealership, and I did that on the shop floor... so I only did one layer. I am happy with the results, although it was only part of the project, since the interior is done too. If I had more time, I probably would have done at least a second layer as well.

I am not claiming that this will solve all of your road noise problems, however it is probably one of the easiest places you can reach to apply sound dampening, and should be effective. I'd guess it's the biggest "bang for the buck" in terms of time invested.

 

I'va already done the rest of the car, but road noise could definitely still be reduced. Thanks for the picture!

As you probably know, the battery box is also worth doing to reduce exhaust noise, as is the inside of the hatch sheet-metal.

 

This is a timely thread.

I have been planning on doing the fender liners for some time now. It is great to see a pic of them removed. Instead of the material Edge shows, I plan on using Spectrum Sludge, http://www.secondskinaudio.com/produ...d-Barriers.php. I may also treat the body side of the fenders also.

Edge, is there any tricks to taking the liners off?

Thanks.

 

That looks like a neat product... had I been aware of it at the time, I might have tried it (although it may be a bit messy to work with). If I end up deciding to add more dampening on the fender liners in the future, I may apply that on top of what I've already done. Well, bear in mind that:

• My MINI was up on a lift at the dealership
• The tech removed the liners for me, I didn't actually do it

However, with the wheels off already, it didn't look too difficult. He removed all 4 within a matter of 5 or 10 minutes. I think there's a bunch of clips holding it in place, so as long as you have the right tools to pull the clips off (and you remove the wheels first!) you shouldn't have a huge problem.

 

I would be willing to bet that the Sludge product would not stick to the plastic fender liners.

 

The fender liners are held in with expanding screw rivets.

Like this:


Edit: there are also a few regular screws under there.

 

i can never get enough of "hand made" computer generated diagrams. they never cease to humor me, in their uncanny ability to resemble a cave drawing. they are usually extremely helpful, don't get me wrong... nabeshin.. thanks for the custom diagram!

edge:
my mc is due for service and i have been trying to get my mods in order before bringing it in. kind of ironic, but i was hoping that if my mods were well crafted and displayed my eagerness to make improvements on my own, that i could politely... ehh... pester the service tech(s) into letting me watch them work. my fear is that they will end up writing me off as either a voyeuristic freakshow or an undercover quality control guy, sent in from corporate. i realize these are somewhat irrational things to think, but any suggestions on how i might fenagle my way into the garage while they work on it? essentially i just want the techs to know that even though i'm justapooping, i appreciate and care for my mini and want to absorb as much know how as i can, to preserve it.


one other thing:
before starting my sound proofing work, i took the mc out at 2 or 3am on a stretch of the hutch (near mt. vernon, ny). i brought my video camera and set and locked the microphone sensitivity level, driving 55mph in 5th and then i think i may have got some in neutral. the wind was 8mph at my back and there were no other drivers around me. so, as controlled environment as i could get without barracading myself into the holland tunnel. so i recorded the pre-proof decibel level. and whenever i finish the proofing i'll go back out with same conditions and get the new reading.

it's a pretty technical/mathmatical endeavor for someone like myself, so there's a good chance i'll end up botching it some how, but when it's done i'll post the video with audio and some decibel level indicators or something overlayed. i need a girlfriend.

 

old rick:
was just stumbling my way through the forums and read up a few different threads on deadening and saw your piece on the inner firewall. i guess i'll have to bite the bullet and pull out my front seats and sufficiently proof the fire wall and floor pan. "shoulda bought a cadillac". hah.

i also read up a bunch abou the seals on the sunroof and also those damn run flats. so even though i did my audio recording, i fear that my problem lies in multiple sore spots and it may not be resolved by just matting whatever i can get access to.

 

I thought that the goal was to dampen the metal panel vibrations, thereby eliminating the noise that is transmitted to the cabin.

How can adding the vibration dampening products do that if they are not in contact with the sheet metal that is vibrating?

BTW, I just put some of this self adhesive sheet material (actually roll) in/on my doors, the rear hatch, and in the boot. It seems to have made a significant difference. I ended up stuffing some high density foam to close off the giant holes required to access the taillights, and the venting holes at the hatch lift-over. No adhesive used there so easily reversible if need be.

I would expect that doing the wheel wells would be very helpful, but doing the wheel well lining is just not the same and it is not intuitive that it could be of significant value???

 

You should see my gallery then.

 

*** very long post... sorry! ***In my case, I have built up a "relationship" at my dealership over the years. I didn't even meet the service tech in person for at least a year after I bought my MINI... and even then it was only because I had a follow-up question before I drove off after picking up my MINI. The service advisor decided to ask the tech to come out personally, as he could explain it best (I'd had them do some unusual install or something... I forget what it was exactly).

In any case, bear in mind that I go to the dealership a lot. It's only about 20-25 minutes drive for me. I'm practically a groupie. Almost everyone in the dealership knows my face, and I know almost all of the MINI folks by name (both in sales and service). The BMW people may not know my name but they recognize me. I have joked many times that they may as well give me a shirt because I could easily be an employee.

Oh yeah - it helps that I have spent a ridiculous amount of money there, in all three departments (sales, parts, service). The sales department was only one time though, because I've only ever bought one MINI from them... but it was totally loaded, so they did well.

Side note - am I rolling in dough? No. I do fairly well (I'm a IT systems engineer), but it helps that I'm single with no kids. I'm not rolling in it... I just have a serious problem/addiction to this ("Hello, my name is Edge, and I'm a MINIac." "Hi Edge"). I have no doubt that the folks at the dealership think I'm a little bit crazy... but I am a very patient customer, I don't push or hassle anyone, I'm just polite and friendly. Combine someone who spends a lot there and who also is as courteous and patient as humanly possible, and what do you get? Their dream customer.

It pays off in many ways, because I know that many of the people there have gone the "extra mile" just for me, beyond what would normally be expected. I have also received discounts sometimes that are above the norm, and I tend to get nicer loaner cars than most MINI customers (my MINI is actually having some new stuff done on it right now, and they have me in a brand-spanking-new BMW 135ci loaner, it had 30 miles on it when they handed me the keys).

Anyway, the point of telling you all this is not to brag. It's to point out that:

1. I'm not your typical case when it comes to dealer-customer relations
2. If you want to build this type of "special relationship" with your dealer, it will probably take a lot of time, patience and expenditure.

Good luck on starting to develop that relationship with your dealership. Most dealerships will probably be skittish about you being in the service bays though, both for insurance reasons (what if you get injured?), and also because most techs don't like to work supervised, especially by the customer. The techs have come to know that I'm practically one of them in terms of personal interaction. They are able to be relaxed around me, and I'm thankful for it, because it has totally paid off in terms of the details when modifying my MINI. Even still, when I drop by, I realize they're on the clock, so I try not to stay too long. I'd hate to slow them down too much and overstay my welcome.

Take one look at my hard-to-read signature and realize that most of the stuff in it (all of the JCW stuff in red and everything that comes after OEM:) was installed at the same dealership, by the same tech (their most experienced, incidentally).

Regarding the soundproofing - that is a great idea with the "baseline" video & audio recording. Nice. Doing the wheel wells won't help with vibrations at all, true... that's not the point. The wheel wells will help with reducing road noise though! That's an entirely different problem than vibrations and squeaks.

 

As far as plastic bits rattling.... Does anybodies downtubes and plastic shift ring cover make noise? In cold weather mine will make a creeking sound like plastic rubbing together. I wonder if there is away to stop that.

 

Agreed that doing the wheel wells will not help with the vibrations.

However, I thought the noise is a result of the vibrations, and the type of product we are talking about here is designed to dampen panel vibrations. It would be more accurate to refer to this product as a 'vibration damper' thereby providing indirect sound deadening, as opposed to a true noise/sound insulation product that is actually designed to sound deaden.

I am sure a layer or two of this butyl rubber sheet material will have some residual sound deadening capabilities, but it would seem that a true sound deadening product might be a better selection.

So, why would we use a vibration damper product (i.e. butyl rubber sheet material) when a sound deadening product would deliver better performance?
Is it just easier to apply?
Is it the only thing that fits as a sound deadener will likely be thicker?
Are there environmental considerations as the cabin side of the wheel wells are somewhat exposed to the elements?

I am new at this acoustical engineering stuff, so just trying to understand.

Thanks..................

 

I was initially not thinking about applying material to the liners directly, but I will ask the Second Skin Audio folks if it will. They have other products that perform the same function. I may end up applying material to the body only and not the liners. I first need to take a wheel and liner off and have a look see.

 

OldRick, please link us to some of the other pertinent threads on sound deadening. Searching on NAM is not always successful.

 

Unfortunately, NAM makes anything more than a year old unsearchable. It's the worst search I've ever seen on a Forum site. Here's a few:

https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...is-needed.html

https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...has-a-fix.html

http://www.soopercooperinfo.com/Dashrattlecure.html

https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...fing-mini.html

On mine, I basically used dynamat on every sheet-metal surface I could see and get at with a reasonable amount of effort, including the rear hatch and battery box, under the rear seat, boot bottom, inside of the doors, etc. I also have three different chassis braces, each of which has killed a rattle or two.

I've got a TSW X-brace on order to replace the OMP lower bar - we'll see if that helps. I'll dynamat the wheel well liners and the sheet-metal in back of them this spring.

Have fun, and order about three times as much dynamat or other adhesive damping sheet as you think you'll need - there's always one more spot you'll discover.

Edit - almost forgot, for sound absorption, I've also got a sheet of 3/8" of soft butyl rubber (mcmaster.com) under the floor and trunk mats, which are the thickest carpet mats available - http://www.lloydmats.com/LUXE_featuresl.htm