http://editorial.autos.msn.com/artic...nl_6008.4.5.31

 

Very good read. I've owned a Corvette, my wife owns an S2000, and I an 09 MCS. So, the article was very interesting. Thanks for posting the link.

 

Great read!

Although, I don't know if I'd call any of those cars a "Muscle Car". I owned a 69' Camaro back in the day. That car cannot be compared to the muscle cars of today. It went beyond HP, it was the whole experience. The lumpy engines, the raw handling and sound sensory overload when driving, defined that class of cars.
It was raw as all get out. But it was a good kind of raw. The same kind of raw like your first bite of that perfectly done semi-raw steak. Or the first biting cold raw of the season in the Northeast. It wakes you and then slaps you and then slaps you some more and then sends shivers down your spine. I don't feel that with the Mini. The Mini is more refined in delivery and handling and includes cup holders and mood lighting. With the Muscle Cars, you smelled like fuel when you stepped out of the cabin....Two totally different experiences.

I wish they wouldn't call these types of cars "Muscle Cars" as that term should be reserved for that wonderful era. They have to come up with this generation's own name to define the high HP cars of today.

 

Link is dead already

 

Link works for me.

 

The Fbody is dead but this thread is still motoring along

 

In the end, isn't that what a "sports car" is all about? To these eyes [and I'm no doubt blinded by the not-so-big 3 right now] in today's hyper desensitized and insulated world, emotion and interaction are often diluted to strictly marketing hyperbole. It's becoming increasingly rare for a wholesome experience to drive off the production line.

Nice article, thanks for posting! It's good to see someone trying to make good out of the current offering of sporty cars, even if most do lack that visceral interaction.

 

Link working here; below is the link to page 2 of the article:

http://editorial.autos.msn.com/artic...=757216&page=2

One error is that they say that the Cooper S has no Direct Injection (R53?).

 

Good catch pilotart! Yes they list the "T" engine with 172HP, so that's definitely the R56. A little oops on their part.

 

Interesting article.

But... according to the "Tech" chart you can buy a Mini Cooper S for $22,600. WHERE?!? I want one for that price! I paid way more for my two.

*Funny, I just went back to check something from the article (before submitting this post) and the link wasn't there. I JUST READ IT! Moody link I guess. Don't give up on it people.

 

I might be in the minority here, but I found the article highly flawed to the point there is no validation for anything in it. NONE of the cars shown are "muscle" cars...high tech etc etc but no to muscle nomenclature. SmokeM captured it nicely and as far as us Corvette owners...we do not look at the Vette as a muscle car but rather a sports car. A 396 Chevelle, 440 Mopar, 455 Trans Am (my car new in the early 70's), GTO etc are muscle cars and bring a visceral feel when you see/hear one.

Look at the source... Muscle Car Club
http://www.musclecarclub.com/musclec...finition.shtml

Michael

 

I guess that is MSRP for a bare-bones Cooper S....which would actually a perfectly good MINI to own!!

 

The link doesn't work for me, it works if I cut a lot of the crap off the end of the URL: http://editorial.autos.msn.com/artic...umentid=757216

 

I agree with you. Also to me a muscle car is designed to go fast in a straight line. If it can go round corners, you've got a sports car.The modern Vettes do seem to qualify as sports cars.

 

According to the same chart Porsche 911 is $26200, Cooper S has variable valve...

 

You're proving the point; the article is about new-generation "muscle". That old stereotype of one-dimensional performance simply won't survive in the 35MPG CAFE 2020 laden future. For that image of old-school muscle to actually survive as viable production models, they'll have to be sports cars that are smaller, lighter, and only pay lip service to the days of yore. Such a disgrace to history would be tragic, hence new ideas of "muscle" like the Evo and STI. They are the new generation of muscle car, regardless of what the old generation thinks. A different era has different frame of thought. If you're dead-set on huge barges with big-blocks in them that get 10MPG and can't turn or stop as being the only true muscle car [and I do agree they were the originals] it's time to snap up your Challenger SRT while you can, because none of the retro-muscle will be manufactured come 10 years from now.

 

My other car is a 07 Dodge Magnum SRT8. Considered by many to be a Modern Muscle Car. 425+ Hp and all the latest technology. Goes fast in a straight line (4.68 - 0 to 60) and handles well for a 4300 lb wagon.

 

Would you mind giving a quick comparison between the S2000 and the MCS? I have an S2000 right now and I was thinking of getting a Mini within the next year or so as a daily driver to compliment the S.

 

In all fairness, I've never driven my wife's S2K w/o her in the car. So, I've not driven her's hard, except on road trips when she fell asleep.

IMHO, my 09 MCS accelerates quicker, i.e. faster throttle response than her 04 Honda S2K. I was surprised her S2K is not very fast at the low RPM range but her S2K at the mid-top range is a fun ride. The way my wife puts it, my 09 MCS gets going right off the bat. Whereas, it takes awhile for her S2K to get going but when it gets going it goes. LOL, does that make sense. As you know, the S2K loves the high RPMs.

Plus, she noticed my 09 MCS is better insulated than her S2K, i.e. her cabin noise is greater than mine. She even as a removable hardtop on her S2K. She also noticed a rougher ride going over RR tracks in her S2K compared to mine.

Don't misunderstand she loves her S2K, and IMHO it is a cool sportscar. My MCS is my daily driver & my wife drives our 04 Honda Civic LX as a daily driver, and her 04 S2K stays in our garage except when she takes it out on weekends. Once you drive an 09 MCS you will be very, very pleased. I've never had such a fun daily driver.

 

Thanks for the response. It sounds pretty much like I would expect. I agree, the s2k is about as raw as it gets. It's loud and has a rough ride, but I wouldn't have a sports car any other way. I love how the s2k screams at 9,000 rpms and the handling is excellent. I would rather have a car that goes fast around turns and the Mini is one of the best at this. There are very few cars these days that have "soul" and the Mini is one of them. When choosing a car, fun is my main deciding factor, which is why the Mini is at the top of my list. How does the gearbox compare. I've always heard the s2k has one of the best gearboxes of any car. Since everyone seems to love the 6 speed manual in the MCS, I'm guessing it's also very good. My main concern with the Mini at this point is the reliability. I realize that when you go online, you pretty much only see the complaints because there is no reason to come post everyday about how your car is running perfectly. There seem to be an abnormally large number of reliability complaints on this forum though.

 

I'll have to give the gearbox issue in favor of Susan's S2K over my MCS. Susan's S2K 6spd reminds me of the manual 6spd short-throw I had on my 2002 NHRA SE TransAm. It was so sweet with the gears being so close together. Plus, never had a problem with accidental shift into Reverse.

However, I'm still [owned about a month] getting used to the shift action of mine. My sister-in-law owns an 2008 MC. She warned me to be careful when shifting into Reverse. Sure enough, if I aggressively shift with intention of going down to 1st gear sometimes I've unintentionally gone into Reverse. Very embarrassing when at a traffic light. Now, I shift gently down to 1st gear without any Reverse issues.

That is the only complaint R/T my 09 MCS. As my daily driver I've logged in over 800 miles less than 4 weeks. Again, no regrets and always look forward to getting my Silver Critter.

BTW, click on my sig for further details of my 09 MCS, as well as my wife's S2K.

 

I got my S for only $23k and change. I think the only true "options" on it are the sunroof, bonnet stripes, and MFSW. I suppose some other options might have been nice for convenience, but I can't imagine anything else adding to the motoring experience. To echo gokartride, it has been a perfectly good Mini to have!

 

In addition to my MCS I have an 06 Corvette. It gets very good mileage upwards of 27 mpg on the highway! Thats pretty good for a car that tops out at 186mph. Next week a supercharger is being installed at will give it about 600 hp. If I keep my foot out of it about the same mileage is expected. My Mini is averaging 26.5 mpg in 1100 miles of ownership. I love my Mini but American Muscle is hard to beat.

 

Funny, I never thought of a Corvette as a muscle car any more than I think of a Ferrari or Lamborghini as one. Maybe it is, though. Especially the late 60s Corvettes. It's a great car that has muscle, but as a 2 seater you can actually turn? I still don't think so. I just sold a 400 HP Z28 "go fast car" to order a MINI (my kids may never forgive me!), and I didn't think of that as a muscle car either.

The muscle car died in about '72, and can't be resurrected. Computer control, smooth idles, and the ability to actually turn and stop, all take the adventure out of driving that muscle cars provided. They had their time, and the current versions (Camaro, Challenger) will last a couple more years, before they go away. I will smile and wave goodbye as I disappear down a nice crooked road, having found another equally entertaining way to thoroughly enjoy the privilege of driving. That doesn't mean the MINI is a muscle car, in my opinion. It is a completely different, yet equal kind of fun. Not to mention a LOT safer!!!

You can't redefine an icon to make them fit current rules! It is what it is.

 

I agree, a C4 - C6 Corvette ain't a Muscle Car, rather a Sports Car. For reasons too numerous to mention here, I'm enjoying my 09 MCS w/JCW TK far more than the 01 Corvette [heavily modded w/480bhp] I sold.

However, since my 09 MCS has back seats it is definitely not a sports car, even when I fold them down to fool myself into thinking it is a sports car.
Yet, my Silver Critter is one fun little, mighty ride.