So I am buying some Bilstein pss9 coilovers and have a few quesitons. Is there anything that I NEED to do at the same time as the coilovers? Is there anything I should do? I am specifically speaking of other suspension upgrades. Like I said this will be my first time dealing with coilovers and I just wanted some opinions on what to do. Thanks in advance...

 

How low are you planning on going?

If you get the rear to low the rear camber can become to great. So lower adjustable rear control arms might be warranted. You might want to consider getting a new rear sway bar at the same time.

And save your money on the IC. Stock has still been proven to offer the best performance. ( I myself would suggest the Alta diverter for the stock IC to increase the efficiency above any of the dfic's)

 

There is plenty to add but only if you need it.

What are you going to use your MCS for? Street only, car shows, autocross, track, driving school? Combination of these- if so how much of each?

Makes a difference since coilovers like the PSS9s will allow-
Ride height adjustment for any wheel/corner
Damper and rebound adjustment for firmness (1 to 9).
Ability to corner balance- good for track, requires adjustable end links front and back (sold in pairs but you could just use one front and one rear- they are different lengths)

Things to add-
If for street only you don't really need aggressive negative camber but for any performance driving it does help. On the track more negative camber is a must for cornering and for better tire wear.
Adjustable front camber plates- allows for a range of front negative camber from -1.0 to -2.5 degrees, won't wear tires that much even if very negative. Fixed front camber plates are cheaper but don't allow for any right to left adjustment- you just get what happens once installed.
Adjustable end links- needed for corner balancing, important for track, not needed for street use, requires adjustment of ride height to get weights of right front and left rear (diagonal balancing) to equal left front and right rear weights with you in the driver's seat with your helmet and with fluids topped off and in race ready condition- no extra weight in the car as you would take it to track.
Adjustable rear sway bar- 3 hole 19mm or 22mm bar is fine. 19 mm for street use, 22 for track. Hollow H sport 25mm bar is same as 22mm solid bar and lighter in weight. 19mm bar is good because you can use all three holes to adjust stiffness, 22mm bar is stiffer so likely you will use softest setting.

Things to do-
Do get an alignment after the coilovers are installed and given a few weeks to settle and you like the ride height you have front and rear.
Make the toe setting appropriate for your level of performance driving. Stock alignment is toe in for the front and rear but for better handling and turn in response you can use front toe zero to 1/16" toe out and in the rear 1/16" toe in. By comparison stock settings are much more toe in front and rear than these. Toe settings if severe can increase tire wear for street use.

 

you may also need spacers...5mm should do it, to prevent rubbing between the front tire and the shock/strut body. if you need spacers, you'll need a lug nut conversion kit, as the stock bolts will no longer be long enough. and be sure you know if you need 12mm or 14mm lugs!! most use 12mm, my '08 mcsc has 14's...a rather inconvenient thing to find out in the middle of your install!!

getting some new shoes helps tremendously as wel!

 

isn't suspension sorting fun?

In addition to all the good stuff mentioned so far, I'll add this: find a local shop that works with autocrossers and club racers. you will get the benefit of their expertise and equipment. Sears or Firestone or pep boys will have no clue to corner balancing nor a performance alignment.

 

Hopefully you won't need spacers- those are mainly for clearance from your suspension parts or from the wheel well/arch liners.

Minimal spacers like 3mm might work and not require longer studs or bolts.

Some risk of rubbing will depend on the wheel and tire combo you have.

A specialty shop for brake and alignment/ wheels is always good to have as mentioned. Normal shops don't really get enough business interested in the non stock adjustments for performance driving.

I will say that I have had success with a few Goodyear Gemini garages in my area that are willing to do work on my modded MCS just for the fun of it. They tell me normally they don't accept non stock upgrade work since they don't want to be responsible for problems with fitment.

 

I have OZ 17x7 et37 wheels. Do you think I am going to need spacers?

 

make sure the setup is corner weighted

that is NOT optional

 

Please explain...

Anyone run Ireland camber plates or know anything about them? Any good?

 

with coil overs it is possible to adjust the height of each spring perch independantly

it is therefore possible to wind up with some rather odd static weight distributions left to right, and front to rear

for example the RF and LR could be bearing 100 lbs more weight that the LF and RR and from the stance of the car it could be hard to tell - the sway bars will cancel that out (if they are connected) and even if they are not the resulting torque on the chassis won't necessarily be visible

when that car (with the heavy RF and the heavy LR) goes around corners, things get exciting... here's why

when that car turns left, the weight shifts to the right hand side -- on that side the proportion of static weight distribution front to rear is biased toward the front

when the car turns left, it momentarily encounters the opposite - the left hand side (relative to the right) is biased towards the heavy LR

the result is a car that has asymmetrical handling, and can be a little quirky in transition

corner weighting, in a nutshell is simply this
1. put a weight simulating the driver in the drivers seat
2. with the ride height set correctly and sway bars disconnected
make minor adjustments to ensure that the proportion of weight between the left front and left rear matches the proportion on the right hand side

my car wound up thus

LF: 874 RF: 806
LR: 547 RR: 512

Note that the sum of LF and RR (1386) closely matches the sum of RF and LR (1353). The weight bias of the car is to the left (51.88%) due to the asymmetrical drivers weight.

The left side front to rear weight distribution is 61.51% front
The right side front to rear weight distribution is 61.15% front

The overall chassis F/R distribution is 61.34% front.

It's not perfect due to the driver, but it is pretty close. That job was done by Turner Motorsport (Speed GT and Touring Car Champs) in Amesbury MA, by a gent that has also been crew chief to Boris Said.

The point is, the static weight distribution determines whether the dynamic handling is symmetrical right to left - and if it is not you will perceive it as a handling issue. At the limit, it could become a safety issue.

Did all that make any sense?

Cheers,

Charlie


BTW: this is an '04 Cooper S Works with a 190 lb driver! YMMV... (nice article from gnatster below too)

PS: I'm running Randy Webb's camber plates with no issues - thanks Randy... (-2.3 front)

PPS: I'm down about 1.5" and had to add Hotchkis Lower Control Arms to get the rear camber where I wanted it (-1.0 rear) -- that takes the understeer down to controllable levels.

 

Decent article on the theory behind Corner Weight.

http://www.hotrod.com/howto/113_0309...ion/index.html

A lot of folks have been running Irelands Steet/Track plates with no issues but some have had issues. I've been through 2 sets myself and am about to replace them with Texas Speedwerks. Why TSW? Well I live around the corner from TSW World HQ and often beta test product for them. They also go above and beyond a mere install when I have work done there, little things like corner weighting the car and gee while the wheels are off and the car is up how about a pad swap. Oh and there is that keg of Shiner Bock on tap.

 

Depends on how much lower you go with your PSS9s and what tires you use.

If you use tires that are less than stock on tire diameter like 215/40-17 you should be fine.

Your wheels have much less offset so the tire will be farther out from the wheel well than stock which means any tire larger than stock like 215/45-17 will likely be very close to rubbing- you can reduce that risk by trimming your inside rear upper inner wheel arch plastic and increasing rear negative camber. Too much rear negative camber can increase understeer and decrease ride quality.

Stock size tires should do OK.

While it is true that if you want the very best in predictable handling, you should do corner balancing, it is not a requirement for every driver.

I do recommend it since you have already installed coilovers. If you don't corner balance you have only your estimate of ride height to go by for each wheel and if you are off by a little then handling could suffer but I think it depends how you drive, under normal street driving I don't think it would be a big problem and if it is then buy adjustable end links and corner balance your car.

Note that some coilovers cannot adjust ride height- in that case corner balancing is not possible.

 

I am going to have to find a place here that knows how to do corner balancing. I live in Utah and it may be hard to find. Most do their own work here. With my Bilstein's I plan to run about a 1.75 inch drop. I want low but not too low...

 

dude, that's low. my rears are slightly tucked with a 1" drop . you should def. get rear control arms. i haven't done alignment yet (installed last week) but i can see that 1" drop definitely introduced some negative camber in the rear.

my experience is with a cabrio, so others may have experienced otherwise. also, i was surprised to find that my oem rear control arms did have some adjustability (i thought that was just an r56 thing).

lastly, is cobb tuning (salt lake) near you? they are wrx/sti and evo oriented....but nationally respected folks. maybe they could help ya?

good luck!

 

Is that about full drop? Planning on putting my Bilstein's on this week but at full drop.

I don't think anything is NECESSARY if you're just going to drive on the street. But, if you have the money, there are some things you may WANT to do. Such as; rear control arms, camber plates, rear swaybar. Only thing I would say you HAVE to do is get an alignment.

 

1" drop and its tucked huh? There is another board member with my same wheels and year and he is dropped 1.5" and he still has room. Just thought I'd want to be close to tucking. I will have to look into Cobb Tuning. I am near Salt Lake so this could be an option. Thanks...

 

i have 215/45-17's and 180 more pounds in the rear with my cabrio..i suspect that expains it

http://www.cobbtuning.com/ check out that "accessport" gizmo! i had one on my '02 stage 3 wrx....hopefully, something like that will come our way soon!

 

Does Cobb do service? On their website under services they only list that they do dyno tunes and says nothing about installations or anything...