Wanted to ask here locally rather than jump into the G-stock forum.

Is the LSD pretty much necesarry to be competitive in g-stock? Assuming all of the other mods are done like wheels/R-comps, shocks, exhaust, alignment and front anti rollbar. Is Mike W.'s G-stock mini equiped with an LSD? I assume at the national level it is 100 percent needed but I don't want to get too far ahead of myself. The mini being purchased will be used.

The reason I ask is I may be the driver of a mini for the rest of the season and the person financing this wants to get an S. I figure its not so bad since Mike W. is in SS now though(The grey mini is pretty fast too). I was actually leaning towards staying in H-stock with a NA mini but I don't have the final say(I'd like to keep the points scored so far too).

The mini/bmw dealership has two red minis up for sale(being red is kind of important for this also), one an S and one is NA so we are trying to work this out before someone else snags them.

Thanks for any input you guys have.

 

For a less experienced driver the LSD is not the limiting factor.

If you are experienced then having LSD is helpful but still not required. You can learn to drive and make the best of things with the given MINI you have.

Usually skill counts more than equiptment. Even the best prepped car will need to be driven well to keep up in our region.

MC in H stock is competitive. You'll need autocross alignment and R compound tires on either stock 15" or 16" sized wheels. Street tires will be less good.

G-stock has Mike M. in an otherwise plain MCS with stock 16" wheels and R compound tires, no LSD. Mike W.'s MCS has SSR comp lightweight 16" wheels and Hoosier A6 tires and factory LSD with aftermarket exhaust. At any time Mike W. can return to G-stock if he has any problem or lack of results in SS class with his GT3 although right now he's progressing nicely.

It's really a toss up. H stock is wide open but you'll have to drive well and there is no reason that a 5 speed MC cannot do very well. Bigger question is which wheels and tires will you be using.

15x5.5" rims and 205/50-15 or
16x6.5" rims and 205/45-16 or 215/40-16 tires
Note that 215/40-16 is meant for 7" wide rims so it's a tough fit on stock rims.

Front anti roll bar can be changed but no one has done it in or region.

Any cat back exhaust is legal but it is not necessary or required.

Shocks are possible. Koni Yellows are good. Only Mike W. did that for stock classed MINIs.

Alignment is always good, go for more toe out in front about 1/8" or at least zero toe. Rear toe 1/16" toe in. The newest R56 can adjust front camber a little 1/2 degree and 2005 and later MINIs can adjust a little rear camber by 1/2 degree. You want as much negative camber in front as possible and about -1.5 degrees in the rear, not much more.

If you run on runflats you won't be competitive right now. The H stock and G stock drivers are just too experienced. Doesn't stop you for gaining experience though. Remember it's the driver that is the biggest factor.

Automatic transmission would be tough to use against manual transmission competition. I think best results come from manual.

As far as fun to drive goes, both MC and MCS can be fun at autocross. You can do much more with more power but it's still fine. If you look at handicaps in H stock you have 3/4 second to give on a 35 second course to remain competitive with G stock competition and 2.3 seconds to give from the fastest car for the event. Any more time lost will not land you in the top 10 on PAX handicap for the event. This assumes you can beat everyone in your class hands down.

So last event lets look at some sample times:
Fastest time
B Street Prepared 26.646 seconds x PAX .858 = 22.862 seconds (1st)
G Stock (Cooper S) 29.798 x PAX .815 = 24.285 seconds (12th)
H Stock (corolla) 31.395 x PAX .792 = 24.865 seconds (23rd)
D Street Prepared (best MCS time) 29.657 x PAX .843 = 25.001 (27th)
Street Mod (best MCS time) 28.782 x PAX .860 = 24.753 (19th)

So the PAX time to beat for the event was 22.862 seconds
That means for each class this is the time to beat:
G Stock 22.862/.815 =28.051 seconds or 1.747 sec faster
H Stock 22.862/.792 =28.866 seconds or 2.529 sec faster
DSP 22.862/.843 =27.120 seconds or 2.537 sec faster
SM 22.862/.860 =26.584 seconds or 2.198 sec faster

The PAX handicap is better/favorable for stock classes and much worse for modded classes.

From these numbers you can see that there is much to improve on especially in H stock class.

Right now it's pretty competitive at autocross in the classes that MINI compete in. The only place where there aren't many drivers is STX which is good for the MCS using almost any wheels and street tires.

 

I appreciate your detailed post but I should be more clear about the motivation and who I am(not that who I am matters that much).

This car is being purchased mainly as an autocross/promotion vehicle. A mini for this purpose has NOT been purchased yet(MCS or MC). We will be maxing out stock class rules and I want to be as competitive as possible and will be shooting for top pax places by the end of the season. I am actually the driver of the white corolla in H-stock now(hence wanting to use points scored from the last event).

This started because I am tired of autocrossing my Corolla. With the current cars and drivers, I do well in H-stock but can't break low 20s pax(as your numbers show). I am looking for a new challenge and the company I work for may be willing to help with that. Also I don't want to wait to be beat(you are right after all. Someone with R-comps could easily ruin my weekend), I want to progress.

While I acknowledge I may not be as good as Mike W I just wanted to know if an LSD was needed to be on par with the other drivers(equipment wise). While I don't have final say on which is purchased I can make an argument for one or the other. The main point for me is to be as fast as possible in the class but the entity with the dollars still wants the S because of perception(it has more horsepower it must be "faster" right?). It'll be my job to help advise on what will be the most competitive.

 

OK, You are Sean B.

Makes sense.

Yes, There are many ways to make a MINI do well in several classes.

If you want to keep your H stock points then you're looking at an MC with 5 speed. 2005 or 2006 for the getrag transmission and yes you can max out on legal upgrades. Alternatively a new R56 2007-2008 MC with 5 speed transmission is also possible. Which of these is better is up for debate but some drivers think the newer MC is quite good with the sport button engaged and you may adjust front camber a little in stock form.

If you want G stock then an MCS with factory LSD and required 6 speed transmission is best, made with Supercharger in 2005-2006. 2007-2008 is R56 MCS with turbo, factory LSD and 6 speed transmission.

If you are getting any MCS with factory John Cooper Works Kit then you can run in B Stock if 2006 or later. MCS JCW is also eligible for Street Touring X. You're limited to street tires but you get all the JCW upgrades plus allowable changes in Street Touring class. If you want R compounds with an MCS JCW (all years-factory or dealer installed) then DSP is correct.

Personally I like the STX option but the MINI would cost more and the upgrades would be considerable.

MCS with factory LSD is rare on the used market. 99% sold in Hawaii didn't have it.

The new R56 is supposed to be good but I find that with more low end torque it's easier to spin the wheels and not as easy to drive hard compared to the R53 MCS,

The new clubman is similar to R56 in both MC and MCS but heavier.
Cabrio is also heavier with less stiff body and engine is same as R53.

It's not an easy decision. Let me know if more information is needed. You have a little time to go shopping before the next events. Right now only Mike M. in G stock is competitive and he has only been driving his MINI for one season. True if you went to G stock it would be tough to unseat him from first given two events are done unless he missed one event and you managed to beat him head to head by at least one place for all ten remaining events.

There is no one in STX right now so you might get bumped into STU against Steven N. in this RX8 that is doing quite well the last few events.

MC doesn't have a lot of power so you really have to drive well and make good use of the handling and transmission. To me, automatic won't be up to the task, 5 speed much better. 2002-2004 MC had less reliable 5 speed, I'd skip that. CVT in those years also less reliable. Years ago Erik T. drove a black 2003 MC in H-stock and Randy A. drove a Velvet red MC with 5 speed and both did pretty well until they were sold.

Good luck.

Here's a debate on R53 vs R56-
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co....php?p=2171299