OK, I need some help/advice here.

On Monday, I noted a whoop whoop sound coming out of the engine at low RPM I had noted it in the past, but it always seemed to pass. On Monday though it seemed worse than usual. As RPM's increased, the sound was still there and increased along with the RPM, but eventually would be drowned out by the louder engine noise.

Then, last night, I'm heading home from a class, the SES light came. I didn't note any change, so I thought maybe it was related to the emissions system. I was 45 miles from home, and my only reasonable option was to drive home. As I accelerated onto the highway, I heard a loud bang, the car started to sputter and eventually died. I rolled to the breakdown lane and opened the hood and found the #2 spark plug sitting on top of the engine, and the plug boot was laying next to it, all torn up.

Here are some extra details. The plugs are after market Denso Iridium with Kingsbourne Blue wires. Plugs and wires have been on the car for nearly 45K miles. Also, I had the 50K service at the dealer last Friday, where I noted the odd sound. When I picked up the car on Saturday, there wasn't a service person available and had no alternative but to take the care home and call, which I did on Monday.

As I mentioned, I had noted the odd sound to the dealer. However, when I brought the ejected plug to the dealer service manager, his comment was that the head is likely stripped and would have to be replaced and it was due to the aftermarket plug. I'll hold off mentioning the dealer for now because they've always treated me well and don't want to flame them prematurely, but I'm a bit pissed off. IMO, they should have seen the issue when they did the 50K check. There must have been some misfires, or other signals when they checked the OBD. I'm going to pull the codes myself tonight just to see what's on there.

So, my first question is, has anyone else had this problem and if so, what was your experience?? Am I screwed ??? What is/are my alternatives given that I'm out of warranty ???

Is it possible that the plug ejection didn't screw up my block ??? and what's the best way to proceed if it did ???

Sorry for the long post. I'm looking for any help...

 

Sorry to say it but I think you may be out of luck. Denso Iridium sparks plugs are known for coming lose. Being that it isnt a Mini part, and the only thing that could be contributed to the break down is the aftermarket spark plugs. I highly doubt that MINI will warranty it. The damage could be (in the best case) that it stripped the threads in the head. Or in the worst case metal shavings could have damaged the piston or cylinder wall.

Or maybe it came out withotu damageing anything.

Good luck man

 

lots of threads about this. i don't believe you'll get any consideration from bmw. fwiw it's worth i had denso's on my car for a short while (12k miles). I checked them at least twice a month... they never seemed to come loose on me.

that was until the last 2 times i checked them... about 2k between each check and 1 of them was finger loose both times. so out they went and in went the oem ngk's. No problems since. That's not to say aftermarket ngk's or any plugs won't do this if not tq'd correctly. but something seems amiss with the denos's. Maybe it's the crush washer idk. I've always tq'd all my plugs to 25. I used to tq to 22 but tuls corrected me on that once and it's been 25 ever since.

Regardless people have used helicoil's to a certain degree of success and a few other methods. In those cases where it has worked they have spent 60 on the parts and a good shop about 200-300 in labor to do it and it has saved them thousands.

Your other option is get a new stock head. (about 2k) or use this as an excuse to get an aftermarket head (about 2k). Either way get your check book out... it's going to be a bumpy ride.

-how long was it since you checked your denso's?
-how long did you try and drive after the ses light came on? why didn't you stop and check out the engine?

I don't think it was by any fault of bmw that this happened. I know that doesn't please you but that's the case... if you put aftermarket stuff on the burden of checking it and making sure it's ok is all yours.

 

Bub Rub is down with the whoop whoop.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSOSJ68xOBA

 

Well, I'd argue with you about using aftermarket plugs, but I guess my real gripe is that they should have checked the OBD codes during the 50K, given that the engine was making "non standard" noises. I'm not an expert, but I'm guessing (perhaps incorrectly so) that a day-in, day-out mechanic should have noted something odd.

And yeah, I know I'm bitching here, but I guess I just don't buy the whole "aftermarket plug" aspect of this. Plugs are machined to the same specs and as long as you torque them properly, which was done, they shouldn't come shooting out of the block !

 

I gotta question. I looked down into the plug hole, and it looked, as best I could tell that the threads were still in tact. Is it possible I'm seeing something ?

 

why don't you do a little searching on how many people that have shot aftermarket plugs out of the head of the r50/r53 and get back to me.

did you have an ses light when you went in for the 50k check? checking the plugs should have been part of that yes... but it wouldn't matter, because putting in aftermarket plugs is going to take the burden off of them. Also misfire's throw ses... i should know i just had a bad plug wire and i threw a cyl 1 missfire all the time. So unless you had an ses you completely ignored, how can they know.


It's not that I'm siding with bmw over you... it's just that you're one of about 300k customers. and bmw doesn't really care about you. When push comes to shove the dealer can't possibly warranty this because they have to answer to mini usa, and their lawyers. When mini usa asks them weather it was an after-market plug or not... and they say yes it was not oem. Mini-usa is going to tell them, "Any work you do will not be covered by mini-usa." So some one has to pay. And i gaurentee you it will not be the dealer. All in all, bmw's support is more important then pleasing you, so they will side with whatever bmw's protocol is.

 

Yeah, I know the objective part of me agrees with your argument. I'm just not in the mood to pay $2K for a new head.

To answer your question. I did get an intermittent SES light 2 times previously (would come on for 1 or 2 seconds and then go out), but I also had a problem with my exhaust, so I attributed this to the exhaust, which I also had corrected at the 50K visit. Since my car has run so clean for 45 K miles since the plugs were installed, I never gave it a second thought.

I have a feeling this is gonna suck !

The optimist in me hopes that I can feed the plug back in tonight and fire it up. Keep your fingers crossed.

 

I would also consider this a lost battle with the dealership - since you say that you liked working with them, arguing with the SA isn't going to earn you any goodwill.

Perhaps this could be seen as a good reason to upgrade to a new head? Otherwise, helicoil seems to be the most budget-oriented option.

 

fwiw if the stealership won't help you... this is what I would do personally. I would march my butt over the helix in philly and have them install of the aftermarket heads they sell. Cost of the aftermarket head and install is going to cost you less then a stock head at the dealership would, and you'll get another 20-30whp to boot.

that's just what i would do. of course there is the helicoil route too.

 

LOL - minimusprime and I appear to be on the same wavelength at the same time.

Blue Brummie - I'm holding my breath for you and hoping that you're right about the plug working its way out slowly while turning on the threads, and that the threads remained intact.

 

I have some good news.

Last night, in the biting cold, I was able to sloooowly rethread the Denso plug back in. Started and stopped the car 4 times and the SES light cleared. Then I took it out for some low RPM, low stress driving, followed by some higher RPM driving.

I'm happy to say, it looks like it's holding. I'm not going to drive it again until I get to my parent's garage, where I can spend some more quality time with it to make sure all is well, but I'm optimistically calling this a success story.

Though, I'll tell you what. I'm going back to stock plugs immediately. Based on the incremental benefit they offer, I really don't want to have to deal with this every month. Doesn't seem like a good risk / reward equation for me.

Thanks to all that offered their thoughts/advice !

One final question. Is there an appropriate Loctite product that's suitable for giving the plugs a little extra gripping power ?

 

If you were able to thread the plug into the head successfully and tighten it to the rewuired torque, you should be fine. Usually those who have popped plugs have no thread left to engage, much less give the required torque.

I would not loctite the plugs in place, mainly because given the heat the threads encounter the locking ability would be mostly diminished, and when it comes time to pull that plug out again, you can actually risk breaking it off in the head.

 

Good point. I'll just take the extra time necessary when installing the OEM plugs to ensure a good seat.

 

great news! Happy for you!!

 

It turns out my good luck was short lived. I was able to get the old plug to thread in, but there were so few good threads left that when I tried to replace all the plugs with OEM plugs, the new plug just wouldn't seat properly.

So, in hopes of solving this issue with a low cost solution, I'm having a reputable local mechanic who has done excellent work for myself and friends, install a helicoil (sp?).

Two questions. Has anyone else tried this and what was your results, and secondly, are there any things go watch out for when doing this. I'm guessing the key thing is to make sure no metal filings get down into the cylinder. If there's anything else to be aware of, my ears are wide open.

Thanks --

 

Helicoil in many cases is a good solution for buggered-up threads (hopefully in your case as well). The mechanic is going to have to drill and tap the spark plug hole to accept the O.D. threads of the helicoil. I would assume (we all know what happens when I assume) that he would have to remove the head to do so. At that point you would be paying for the labor to remove the head, drill/tap and install the helicoil, reinstall the head with a new head gasget. That could equate to 6- 10 hours of labor alone, and depending on what the shop rate is it could get pricey. Get a quote from him and see if it's worth it.

here is a link that should help you.
http://www.alcoa.com/fastening_syste...asp?cat_id=645