Can't decide between the 2. My tires are about done and I was thinking in upgrading the wheels, tires and then of course can't do those without upgrading the suspensions as well.

Hence the beginning of my delima.

With coil overs I hear that you gain tremendous handling but lose comfort in everyday ride. Also the cost can be anywhere from 50 to 100% more expensive.

I had a chance to talk to Mario about getting coil overs and since he has tried many of the combinations, the one that he really liked was the The combination of H-Sport Springs along with Koni FSD shocks.

The least expensive coil overs are about a $1,000 but they are not necessarily the best to have and since I like good stuff and have that "who wants to settle for 2nd best" mentality it only adds to my delima.

The combination of the Koni FSDs and H-Sport springs gives you a great pricing (slightly under $1,000) and great comfort as I have been told.

What I would like to gain with this upgrade is of course the superior handling but not for the expense of feeling every bump in the road and then some. I drive the car on weekends primarily and some nights so the long drives are not my concern. However, having said that my driving does account for some long trips once in a while. I would also like to track the car maybe twice a year and do want the superior handling when I need it.

This is where I need some input and the best course of action/choice to take.

So the question is: Can the Shocks - Spings combination be enough for light track since they are more comfortable for everyday ride or are the Coil overs the best option when tracking (even few times a year) and the comfort is not as bad as some indicate?

Please chime in
And thanks in advance.

 

If you are looking to improve handling I would suggest adding some negative camber up front. To do this you will need some camber plates. The least expensive are the Ireland Eng. fixed plates. With these plates you will gain some negative camber but will not be able to adjust any disparity from side to side. They will give you the same if not a little better ride and no additional NVH. If you are thinking of lowering your car at some point and want one of the best I would suggest the Cross/Jic coilovers which comes with camber plates. These have smaller diameter springs and will be able to acheive more negative camber than stock springs. They would make lots of adjustments possible so you would not be limiting yourself for future suspention upgrades. Reported ride quality is a little firmer than the JCW suspension but not harsh. These are a little pricey but generally you get what you pay for.
Steve

 

I have the FSD / H-Sport spring combo and love it for spirited street driving

 

The Cross/jic were my 1st choice but again, I am worried about too much bump and discomfort in the ride itself.

Like I said, I would love to have the best of the 2 worlds (ride comfort & superb handling) however the coil overs are ruff in long drives and do make you feel almost every bump.


I came across some good priced Cross coil overs that came with camber plates but after reconsidering the ride quality and it's effect I had to rethink my option and hence the Koni FSD-H sport springs options. If I do go with 2nd option, shock and springs, the conventional wisdom would indicate to add some camber plates as well which only adds to your cost.

Therefore, as far as the cost is concerned, your basically looking for almost the same pricing when comparing the coil overs to the shocks, springs and camber plates option in which it only gives you very little in price difference .

 

This thread moved from Drivetrain to Suspension forum.

Normally most Koni FSD owners keep their stock springs. You might want to check with various vendors about that and with some owners of FSD shocks.

Coilovers can be both better for handling and comfortable but the best ones for track are a bit too firm for street use. A good set of coilovers for street use could be used for limited track.

Front camber would be helpful for any track use but that does add to your expenses. Adjustable plates help to make the front camber even left to right and allow for enough front camber so you can use more of the tires on the track. Otherwise with stock front camber you will be wearing the outer edges of the front tires about 30% more which tends to eat up tires in a hurry if you drive hard.

For H-sport springs, many owners choose Koni Yellow shocks that are adjustable. These will do OK for track but you won't have as much comfort for street use.

Coilovers are helpful because you can adjust ride height and adjust shock firmness (dampening and rebound). Some sets allow more or less adjustment.

 

I have heard that Koni FSD's while they will work with aftermarket springs they will fail after about 10k

 

I idea here is to obviously upgrade the handling, which is more of my plan, but still keep the comfort so that your not wanting to get the hell out of the car after having driven it for a long trip. The worst thing to possibly happen is to get tired and or annoyed over those trips, short or long. But at the same time I want it to handle as good as it can.

It's a double edged sword, I understand, that's why I'm here asking you fine gentlemen to help me make my final decision.

I would love to go with the Cross coil overs, which by the way come with Camber plates, but can someone that has them tell me if they are sacrificing ride comfort for great handling, and if so, how much of a ruff drive is it?

 

Why do you say that?

 

That's been my general rule of thumb. When you change to wider tires and wheels you need to go for the lower look and better handling overall.

Can't have nice wheels and tires with stock suspension and shocks with that huge gap between the fender and the tire.

 

[QUOTE=minihune;1979409}Front camber would be helpful for any track use but that does add to your expenses. Adjustable plates help to make the front camber even left to right and allow for enough front camber so you can use more of the tires on the track. Otherwise with stock front camber you will be wearing the outer edges of the front tires about 30% more which tends to eat up tires in a hurry if you drive hard.[/QUOTE]

Does this apply to fixed plates as well? While I keep looking at FSD'd I also keep looking at the JCW suspension. I know I have mentioned it in the past but I still wonder if the FSD's with JCW springs would be an ideal combo for the street?

I my quest I am like the thread poster that I want a little better handling. Yes, I already have it setup to do the rear bar and feel that camber plates would be a benefit, but don't feel that adjustable ones would benefit me at all.

I still want to maintain and possibly improve ride quality too. I will be replacing the runflats in the near future to help but the quest is still on.

No, if there was a set of coilovers for the street that had good handling and didn't degrade the ride quality then I might be all over that instead. In my searching on here so far I have not found any.

JCW springs are a little expensive but might be the way to go. With the .5" drop it shouldn't hurt the FSD'd either since that should be in the shocks normal adjustment range from vehicle to vehicle.

What's the difference in ride and handling of the FSD's to JCW struts?

 

I've got FSD's, H&R Green Springs (went to H&R from HSports because I kept bottoming them out during autocrossing--the H&R Greens have thicker coils), and IE Fixed Camber plates--just got those last week--and make a substantial difference.

I've got 33,000 miles on my FSD/H&R Setup, and no issues though I have read plenty of warning not to use lowering springs with FSD's. My front struts were taken out last week to install the camber plates and there were no exterior signs that they were failing.

A few weeks ago, a NAMer with the Cross Coilovers let me drive his JCW and I let him drive my setup, and we noticed that comfort wise, they both felt very similar. Granted he was on runflats and I wasn't--it seemed that my setup was slightly more comfortable--but not a day and night difference. Considering he was on runflats--going over rail road ties, and bumps in the road--the ride was similar to mine.

I figure if I had the money, I'd go the Cross setup as well purely for longevity as I don't know how long my FSD/H&R setup will last.

I drive my MCS hard. I enjoy the canyons, and Autocrossing with BMWCCA.

Here's how my setup looks


One more angle


I bought my FSD's for around $650 and the H&R's were around $250 or so.

 

Thanks for the input guys. Need to get some more feed back though. I will call H&R tomorrow and talk to few more professionals that know about both set-up and their differences and advantages good or bad before I decide for sure.

 

I found the FSDs for $569 shipped. The H-Sport springs are listed for $215 on the Helix vendor site.

 

Did you photo shop the top pic? Because FSD's set up was never that low.

 

If you are looking for comfort and want coils, i say try the H&R coilovers. I am running them now and I feel that they are more comfortable than stock. For daily driving and spirited runs they are great. I personally want something alittle stiffer. hehe

 

Nope, his car IS that low.

The FSD's and H&R's on Richard's car (OctaneGuy) rode surprisingly good! He also demo'd how well they handled LA roads - quite impressive.

They are more rode friendly than my Cross setup - possibly due to runflats or possibly spring rate. I would recommend them (FSD + good springs) to anyone looking for a nice drop and performance upgrade.

 

Which H&R's do you have, red or green? Also the second pic doesn't look nearly as low.

 

Mario, do your Cross coil overs have dampers that are longer in the rear? The seller that I found told me that the longer versions give you more adjustability for street comfort and track use, which is something you want. He said that you wouldn't want the shorter rear dampers since they would be very stiff for street and should be used for track only.

 

But he is in the car in the first pic, so that alone is going to make it sit a little lower, plus there could be other bodies in the back.....jk. Anyway I was wondering the same thing as the OP recently, my OE shocks are getting a bit loose up front, and was not sure if going to a coil overs would make the ride harsher, so this helped answer some of my questions.

 

I had the Competion package, not sure if they were long or short. I bought them from Jan so he would know best. I know you can order with different spring rates for both front and back. I tried 3 different springs rates.

 

The different spring rate is what throwing me off. What do they mean by different spring rate? What is the relation between the dampers hight/adjustability and the spring rate?

 

I never photoshop my pix except maybe to adjust lighting for clarity or to remove a spot on my lens. As M3ntal said, they are that low. And as the other poster said--the empty shot is minus 180 pounds, lol. The shot with me in front of the P-51, I've also got the front wheel turned in slightly which might make it appear to be lower. The fronts are definitely not as tucked in as the rear.

I'm running the H&R Green springs--I saw your car at Central Coast Coopers awhile back. Scott spec'd the springs for me after I had troubles with my HSports bottoming out a lot--he can tell you more.

Richard

 

Suspension travel dictates damper stroke length and spring block height. Then, the application enters the equation; street or track. Roll rate and ballance are determined by dampers and springs - in that order.

A shorter damper body is typically used to accomodate less travel - so as not to destroy the damping in a damper designed for longer travel.

And FYI, Koni FSDs are not designed to be used with lowering springs. They will fail, as was posted above, prematriely if they are used with lowering springs and or springs that are too heavy. If you use use shorter, heavier than stock springs, the FSDs will fail very quickly.

As an example, Koni yellows - single adjustable, are at their limit with 400# springs. I have about 300,000 miles of experience with these dampoers alone.

 

Hundreds of thousands of miles with many MINIs using the H-sport / FSD set up and still going strong.

 

http://www.outmotoring.com/mini-coop...coilovers.html

These should be perfect for you. Gives you good handling, but not as stiff as the RSS Clubsport version. They are designed for street use, with some light track use also. Plus it is heght adjustable up to 1.5in so you can get exactly the look you want.
I have the RSS ones and they are great. Awesome handling and stiff.