install was so freakin' easy, that it took more time to jack the car up onto stands and take it down than to do the work. I'll post impressions later. I don't have my coil-overs on the car now and am running the stock struts (the Ledas are getting a rebuild...).

Matt

 

I checked their website and I was surprised at how easy that looks. I thought somewhere I read there was drilling and that BS involved. Guess not. Its not cheap though. Let us know how it turns out because if it makes a significant difference, I may have to look into it.

 

Whadda tease!

 

You should be banned for telling us you put it on before you took it for a test run to at least give initial impressions!


ban I say! hah!

 

and there's a difference for sure, but with the camber off, the alignment off, and the like, what I say now isn't worth much. Initial impressions are good. There are lots others with the unit as well... So I"m sure some digging will get what others have figured out about it.

The only thing I'd add to the instructions is go drive it for a bit, and then re-torque the mounting bolts. If the car isn't flat when you bolt it up, there's a bit of twist in the chassis (a hint is if you have to work to get it to "line up") and that can bias the torquing of the bolts. It's dark now, and I'll re-torque tomorrow.

PGT and Gnatster (among others) have this on as well. But for me, I"ll just have subjective impressions. The big test will be if the wife notices. I didn't tell her it's going on and we'll see what she makes of it.

Matt

 

The wife test is the ultimate "did this mod do anything" test.

 

those threads have politics, I want #s
Umm the butt dynos hard enough to keep in tune, with all the mods I'm not sure I can afford the wife dyno

 

i was only posting based on what others say about seeing if thier wife notices. i'm only a college kid.

 

When you can't quantify the changes (as I won't be able to for this one), having someone who is familiar with the car who doesn't know a change happened is the ultimate test. Those of us that paid for the changes tend to percieve the difference in proportion to the hit to the wallet! Since she doesn't know, if she notices then the difference is real....

While the threads that PGT and Gnatster may have politics, Gnatster does instrument his car pretty well, and tracks it more often than I do. So read with a keen eye, and there's stuff to be learned there.

Matt

 

I know, I'm off-topic with this one, but this observation seems to fly in the face of everyone stating that front strut tower braces are unnecessary because the chassis of the Mini is so incredibly stiff to begin with.

I know, we are talking about underneath here, but if it's twisting down there, It's surely twisting elsewhere.

Sorry, back to your regularly scheduled topic...

Oh BTW, how was day care? haha.

 

Could this be why roll cages make such a difference in handling

 

but as one guy noticed on his car (Nitrosmini aka Lynn Gleason), if you jack the car up the doors don't fit quite as well. I've noticed it too. But keep in mind that I have a rather hard driven 02 with just over 90k miles on it.

Andy@Ross-tech, did some tests with some zip ties that showed the strut tower bar didn't compress much, but his measurements didn't measure twisting effects or stretching (I think, it was long, long ago).

Matt

 

Which is exactly why I question the validity and relevance of such tests. Is it possible that such a test using zip ties should, in fact, measure both stretch AND compression?

Wouldn't the amount of stretch plus the amount of compression add up to the total deflection encountered during hard driving and hence the total deviation in alignment?

Seriously, I have felt the difference in every stiffening item I've put on the Mini. I'll be the first person to pipe up if I buy something that turns out to be a waste of money. I believe that some poor testing has been done and too many people bought into it as if the people doing the testing worked for a serious automotive engineering firm or something, when in fact they did nothing more than strap a zip-tie on some pipes and take a lap.

Anyway, sorry to have hijacked this thread, but I do feel that accurate information should be the focus of these discussions, as they are meant to help educate those of us who lack knowledge and come here seeking.

Thanks for listening :D

 

ahem! if you want to insult, do it to my face! err.....e-persona's face

I put mine on yesterday.....makes another un-named vendors install seem overly complex in comparison (how's that for keeping it hi-level ). As the good doc said, there's a bit of english you need to give it on install due to the suspension not being loaded - working on ramps would fix this.

I had some creaking and groaning at first....another spirited drive (not in the rain this time), and I'll retorque things to give solid impressions. I've got Cross suspension on now but haven't done anything more than install it...no setup, no alignment, no height....so, I'm not a good barometer yet but given the bit of noise at first, we can deduce that the parts the x-brace ties together are moving around quite a bit.

one plus already - the x-brace doesn't hit or clank on any part of the exhaust and at $381/shipped, was only $50 more than I paid for the competitor's product. I balked at first and was a bit vocal about TSW's price, but although still expensive, $50 for a 15 minute install and no exhaust interference seems a small price to pay.

 

Andy has done some real good testing and isn't dumb at all. And for what it's worth Ross-Tech makes some killer diagnostics for the VAG family of cars.

Also, testing techniques are varied, but simple techniques can yield very important results. You would be shocked at what I used in grad school for vibration isolation. Floated about $300k of vacuum equipment and alalytical equipment on 10" inner tubes for wheel barrows. If it works, it works.

Matt

 

Looking forward to hearing more impressions... posting for the subscription.

mb

 

So Matt, what did the wife say?

 

Hope to hear more.

 

very interested...

 

dumping dung? grow up.

 

she didn't say anything, but that's not surprising as she only drove the car once in crappy weather. I'm still waiting on my Ledas to be finished, as they needed a new shaft (one was scored by the previous owner) for one of the struts and it wasn't in stock in the US. So I'm not driving it much to keep the tires from getting chewed up.

For sure I notice quite the difference. I'm actually surprised, as I too bought into the myth about the rigid chassis of the Mini. But I'd noticed door alignment/opening/closing issues when the car was jacked up, and have spoken to many other hard drivers/track rats that have used the TSW, M7, OMP or home made undercarraige brace, and all have noticed a difference. I haven't spoken to anyone with the new Madness bar, but I'd expect some difference from it as well.

One thing I would say is that it only takes about 10 min to put on, but drive and re-torque after a while. You may also want to play with jacking locations as you torque the bolts down as it's easy to deform the shell a little bit and you want the face of the mating surfaces touching to properly torque the bolts. I put it on one day, and then after a couple days (it was raining hard here) I jacked it up one side at a time from the front and re-torqued each bolt to make sure it was firmly seated.

I'm a happy camper for sure! But this is still kind of a pusssy review, as the car still isn't properly aligned and I'm still on the stock struts/springs.

Matt

 

FWIW, we're still enjoying less wheelspin at the track exiting corners where we've seen wheelspin before...

 

cause I haven't put my suspension back together such that I can actually enjoy track work!

I'm actually hoping to do a day or so in Feb. There are some dates at Laguna and tons at Thunderhill coming up that I could go to if I can get all the parts back together on the car.

Matt

 

i too am dissapointed with the chassis . once after jacking it up and dropping back down it felt out of sorts. it came back around but still ; all i can attest the change to was the funky way i had it jacked up .

 

It's just sheet-metal. I don't know why so many people regard the sheet-metal unibody structure of these cars as if it were a tube-chassis. It can, will, and does flex, more so than many people like to admit.