Hey everybody! This car is surely going to be costing me some money, the mod-bug is on my arm and ready to bite, but i'm being patient (es muss sein!). So in the meantime I want to understand coilovers a bit more. I am very tempted to improve my suspension by the Hotchkis-sport springs but I am not fond of a lower ride-height, it really bugs me. My last car (passat) had H&R's and the change was dramatic and I had to be very careful for any slopes, manholes sticking out, etc. Driving a car with a stock-ride height is so much easier on my mind.

I have never seen coilovers in action but I hear they are the way to go for performance but I haven't heard comments on how the ride stiffness is at all. Does the car rebound very differently or what? Is it possible to change the ride-height to the stock level? I want to know if it's possible to do that during the winter, so I can take my mini to where the snow (and skiiiiiing!) is at. I hear there are other factors that need to be adjusted properly and individually on each coilover for consistent performance, and that is something I wouldn't neglect. So who's going to start tearing apart this subject? Oh wait, maybe I already did with all these questions

Thanks!

 

Unless you plan to corner-balance your car EVERY time you adjust the coilovers, your performance will likely be WORSE than if you bought a set of good, fixed shocks and springs. Corner scales run about $1k and must be used on a completely flat surface. The purpose for coilovers is to allow you corner-balance your car for racing.

 

I agree with Andy. For 99% of the folks out there, coilovers are unnecessary.

The H-sport springs don't "slam" the car - they lower it 7/8 of an inch to 1", depending on the car. It sounds to me that the H-Sports would be right down your alley. You would also save at least $800.

If you want more in the way of handling, you can always sepnd another $600 and get the rebound adjustable Konis. I would wait until the Delphis (stock) wear out though - they are actually damped pretty decently for an OEM shock.

Let me know if you have any other questions - and if you want in on the pulley party, I still need to hear from you!

Randy
720-841-1002

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Antranik

You really need to spend quite a bit of time to properly adjust coilovers; they can be a pain. If you race, they are pretty much a necessity due to their level of adjustment. The other problem with coilovers is that some will drop the car, at their highest setting, more than a fixed setup.

I agree with you that lowered cars can be a pain to drive around town, but I can say that even with the H&Rs, the car is not lowered enough to be bothersome (except if you change to wheels with too small of an offset and/or wider tires, then you'll have some tire rubbing, which can be fixed but again is a pain).

Since the H-Sports lower the car even less than the H&Rs, I think you'll be happy with them.

 

Thanks for all your replies! This was the type of information I was looking for exactly!

 

What about weight reduction? What would be the weight savings of having coilovers vs. stock springs and struts?

 

That is a good point I hadn't put into the other considerations. I just ran out and weighed the stock set-up (it actually had the H&R springs) and the new KW V2 front strut. The Stock weighed in at 13 lbs and the V2 was 8.6, so there is something to be said for weight reduction using coilovers.

You would probably need to be Michael Schumacher to feel it though...

Randy

 

Well, while experts andy and randy are into this subject, I have a few additional questions, since I’m also considering coilovers vs. lowering springs.

There have been several posts about lowered spring shocks ‘wearing out sooner.’ Is this a myth? I can understand how the range of motion with them is less, but why does that make the seals wear faster? (I’m assuming that the seals, not the shaft, wear.)

My 3 reasons for considering coilovers instead of lowering springs are
- avoid messing with spring compressors
- go back to stock easily
- adjustable amount of lowering

I had read previously about the need for corner balancing. Given that I’m not going to be racing, would a poor man’s corner equivalent spring balance be sufficient:
- take a first guess at the height of the shocks before putting them on the car.
Measure so that each of the fronts and each of the backs is the same.
- assuming that the spring rates are on the order of 200 to 400 lbs/inch, hang a
reasonable weight (50 to 100 lbs) from the shocks and measure the deflection.
-Adjust accordingly to get the same deflection on each of the fronts and each of the
backs.

Thanks for your expertise.

flyboy steve

 

what you're probably going to want with coilovers is equal cross-weight. any change in ride height on one corner will affect the weight on the other 3 corners.

grm says it better than i can: http://www.grmotorsports.com/cornerweight.html

 

Good discussion guys. I'm leaning toward coilovers also, and not because I plan to compete, but I do drive aggressively on my canyon roads. Once I have them dialed-in, I don't plan to adjust them thereafter. I know, strange. And my big thing is the adjustability though - at least initially. I have two driveways up to my home and they are each quite steep. It is very hard to quesstimate what spring would get the lowest without any scrapping. Thus, my thinking to get coilovers...

 

flyboy - The main reason the stock shocks typically wear out faster with stiffer springs is that they have to work harder with the stiffer springs. Basically, the stiffer the spring, the higher the speed of the suspension movement, mainly on rebound. Also, when the spring is shorter, the shock is not operating in its optimum/designed travel range. Both contribute to additional wear. The H-Sport and H&R Sport springs don't lower the car a lot so I don't think the height change will have a big effect on shock wear. However, since they are progressive rate springs, they will likely cause the shocks to wear faster if you regarly drive very fast over less than even roads or you frequently drive on very uneven roads; both causing the springs to compress quite a bit.

TonyB - Nothing strange about why you want the coilovers. I have almost the same reasons for going with KW Variant 2 coilovers on my New Beetle. Love 'em...

 

Thanks Sleepless for some confirmation or validation of sorts. Randy, a very pleasant surprise indeed with the weight savings. 16 pounds total is something I find to be another reason to further consider this opiton... I'm hearing much about the Bilsteins and wait to learn more...

 

>>flyboy - The main reason the stock shocks typically wear out faster with stiffer springs is that they have to work harder with the stiffer springs. Basically, the stiffer the spring, the higher the speed of the suspension movement, mainly on rebound. Also, when the spring is shorter, the shock is not operating in its optimum/designed travel range. Both contribute to additional wear. >>

thanks, but this isn't a real explanation and i still don't know what would wear out. i know that the shorther springs are stiffer and therefore move less. so what exact part wears out? do the shafts wear a little rut because they are working the same spot more or what? what does the speed have to do with anything? the damping is just fluid getting pushed through a hole - i don't see how that wears faster or slower.>

 

The faster the fluid travels through the holes/valves the faster those valves/seals wear out. Also, the faster the fluid travels, more heat is created, contributing to the early breakdown of the oil and the seals. Also, a shock isn't just fluid passing through a hole; the holes are part of valves which consist of moving parts which wear out over time (rubber, silicon seals, etc.). Search the web for a diagram of a damper for more info.

The greater the mismatch between the shock and the spring, the higher the rate of wear on the shock.

Here is a link to Koni's basic shock designs: Koni

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