My goal is to have the most responsive street and canyon carver possible for $1200.I'm tired of squishy factory setup.I know there are lots of routes and point of views.Dinan sounds good ,but lower height is dinky.Tales of performance and suggestions welcome.No plans for tracking,yet.

 

You might want to see the thread I started called "Dinan suspension anybody have it?" I was going to get the Dinan suspension. I already have a RSB, so all I need is struts, shocks and springs (camber plates & strut tower reinforcement plates). Anyway, my last post sort of sums up my search and conversations with many NAM folks.

First $1200 aint a lot of money. If you want to save yourself some cash and can do the install yourself, (this is not a super difficult install) you may be able to get close, $1239, and get the same thing as the Dinan stage 1, plus a little safety measure you should get.

Order the parts piece meal from different suppliers. First, get the springs from Dinan $340. (Though they are Eibach springs, they are special made for Dinan). I'd get the "right off the shelf" Koni yellow sport struts and shocks, just like Dinan does, but from the cheapest source you can find, Mini Madness ($649) Ebay ($570). Then do what Dinan does and set the front struts 1 turn from full soft and the back 7/8 turn from full soft. You now have the exact same struts and shocks set, matched to the Dinan springs, that Dinan would charge $835.20 for (a $260 savings, that we will spend on better camber plates and strut tower support plates ). I'd then order camber plates from Ireland ($300) or another adjustable plate (not necessary, Dinan's ($200) non-adjustable plates are OK, but for a hundred bucks more you can get a more robust, adjustable plate). Spend the final few dollars on the M7 strut tower support plates $129 or the tower brace $199 to avoid the mushrooming problem that you're gonna experience with the agressive driving you are sure to be doing, or maybe you'll just hit a pot hole. The mushrooming is what me going down this road in the first place, my dealer wanted $960 to fix the problem with OEM parts. Anyway, if you do it this way, you'll save cash and have a few extra nicer parts, but still have exactly what makes the Dinan suspension work so well. The Koni shocks and the Eibach springs.

Just my 2 Cents.
MyCarV
Mike Harvey
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I am an American living in Germany and I am delighted with the Dinan pieces parts on my 06' MCS. I was torn between Dinan, JCW and the local Übertuner (Autohaus Schäfer). I wanted a suspension "system" that was designed to work together, to keep my warranty intact (only 3K miles on the car at the time), and be gauranteed service after the sale and installation. I ruled out Autohaus Schäfer as they warranted their kit through their dealership, which would be of no use to me when I rotate back to the good ole' USA. I finally decided on Dinan after reading an MC2 article rating the Dinan over the JCW kit.

I ordered all parts directly through Scott Leanders at Dinan, who was a pleasure to work with. I opted for everything but their camber plates, of which I went with the IE fixed units. I had everything installed (struts, shocks, springs, rear sway, STB, plates and alignment) at Ramsteins garage for less than $300. Once the suspension settled I had Autohaus Schäfer realign and install JCW brakes.

As I mentioned before, I am delighted with the Dinan set up! I've had this suspension since May and I've been tearing up the twisties in the Mosel and Rhein river valleys, the Zandvoort race track during Mini United, and almost daily on the Autobahn. IMHO, if you're serious about your suspension don't cut corners with a la carte/Ebay parts. Dinan has tuned their shocks/struts/rear bar to their specs (not +1 front and +7/8 rear as mentioned earlier) and stand behind their products after the sale.

Best of luck however you decide to go.

 

The shocks I suggest are exactly the same shocks and struts DINAN will sell you. Call them and ask, 800-341-5480 I did. A tech at DINAN is the one who gave me the settings, and he looked it up to double check. If you want to pay $260 for DINAN to twist two *****, go ahead. If you are still under warranty that could be an issue as well.

Do not believe anyone who says the shocks are specially tuned, valved, or anything. They are simply adjusted, something you can do yourself. This has been confirmed by many NAM members on many different threads. The camber plates SMSgt Bo got are the same ones I suggested I just recommended you go adjustable.

As for Ebay, I'd recommend you go with MINI Madness, who also stand by their parts, over EBay which is why I included them. I was just trying to get you down to the $1200 range. But actually, KONI still honors their warranty no matter where you purchased their products. (see below)

Again, nothing about this suspension that DINAN does is tuned. It's simply matching parts to other parts, very well. And with the correct knowledge that I gave you, you can have a "DINAN" stage 1 suspension +camber plates and strut reinforcement plates, for about $1200, which was the question. I'm just trying to get you more for your money, while not sacrificing anything. Even the warranty will be the same since you purchase the springs from DINAN, and the shocks are covered for life by Koni.

Here is the Koni warranty for their shocks: The KONI warranty is a lifetime warranty to the original purchaser against defects in materials and workmanship and against wear out for as long as you own that car registered for street use. The warranty does not cover damage to the parts caused by misuse, misapplication, installation, motorsports, etc. The warranty does not include mounting bushings. If you determine you have a defective damper you can either contact the company which you purchased the unit(s) from or contact KONI North America directly at warranty@koni-na.com or 859-586-4100. To process your warranty, we will require a copy of the purchase receipt and a vehicle registration. We will generate a return goods authorization (RGA) and can replace the dampers in advance at your discretion. For more specific information about the warranty see inside back cover of our technical guide.

 

With respect to MyCarV, I'm all for saving a buck (or Euro) here and there but there's a little more to the Dinan suspension than simply turning the adjuster *****. Even if it were, the Koni strut set up specs he got from a Dinan tech are not quite correct. I bought the kit and I have the Dinan supplied spec sheet.

Without posting possible proprietary information on an open forum I will say it's true that Dinan uses stock Koni yellow shocks/struts adjusted to their specs. But their specs go further than simple damper rebound settings. Their system also includes springs and a sway bar manufactured to Dinan's specs. The spec sheet supplied with their system includes rear bar set up and comprehensive alignment settings, making their kit more than the sum of their parts. These settings are what separate Dinans kit from their competitors or put together kits. Sure the Dinan kit costs more but people forget research and development costs money and the customer has to pay to play.

You also have to figure in the value factor. Koni has a great warranty but if a Dinan supplied Koni unit fails the dealership (if a Dinan AD) will treat it like a warranty job and fix it. If you buy the strut/shock on your own you'll have to remove it, return it to Koni, wait for the new one and reinstall it when it comes back. Seems like a lot of down time to save a few bucks. :impatient

 

The Dinan set up is very good and can be also be emulated. It's just a matter of which way you want to go about it. You'll be pretty close to $1200.00 either way... Just my 2 pennies....

 

Thanks guys for the responses.
MyCarV-I have been following your posts on this topic.
I too have been driving very aggressively for last 6 months.
These suggestions will help,thanks.

 

Isn't it redundant to have the IE adj. camber plates and the strut tower reinforcements? I thought the plates help prevent mushrooming, but that could be wrong...

mb

 

The plates help mushrooming, but do not adjust camber. The camber plates alone will help with mushrooming, but adding the reinforcing plates on top will make it that much stronger.

Personally, I advise against the plates and recommend the full front strut tower brace by M7. I installed one and although many will claim it makes no difference, there was a noticeable difference in the solid feeling of MY mini when I installed mine.

IMHO, if you want the plates, get the brace.

 

the Dinan Stage 1 suspension does not include a RSB, but this is something that will dramatically improve your handling. So, if you want to buy somethings on top of the $1200, the RSB and the strut tower brace are a great way to go. I'm expecting my M7 Strut tower brace to arrive tomorrow by Fed-Ex. I've been warned that the tower brace interferes with the bonnet closing all the way. It is a simple fix, but be sure to download the instructions so you won't be disapointed after install. I'm curious to see how you will go. I think it is great, that you too, are getting nothing but afirmation that the Dinan suspension is a great model. Hope it all works out for you whatever you do. Happy Motoring!

 

It has been suggested to me, that once you have mushrooming towers. It is a great idea to get STR plates or the equivalent w/ST Brace, in addition to the camber plates. The idea is that metal fatigue sets in quickly when metal is bent first up then back into shape by pounding on it with a sledge on a 2X4. So, if you have mushroomed Strut Towers and are fixing them, be safe and double reinforce. If you just want to be sure you don't get mushroomed towers, double reinforce. The camber plates, if you look at them, are puny compared to the bulk and area covered by the M7 strut tower plates.

 

I've really enjoyed my Dinan setup, night and day from stock. Warranty was an issue for me as I had the work done at about 2k miles and I'm not a DIY'er, so Dinan was perfect for me.

 

...and mycarv suggested purchasing the Dinan springs and an adjustable rear bar...

I have never heard of a Koni strut failing. Ever.

 

Dinan components are tuned to work together as a "system" that performs best when adjusted to their specifications. If you want to bolt on some random adjustable bar, don't expect it to feel as refined and balanced.

I had two factory installed Koni yellows go bad within three years on an 84 SVO Mustang. I was very glad the car was still under warranty.

 

Which flavor Koolaid is that you are drinking? Because you really seem to enjoy it.

 

I apologize for sharing what I mistakenly thought was relevant information. My bad.

 

If everyone had the same opinion, this would be a very boring world and we'd all be driving the exact same MINI with no mods whatsoever. So, bring on your opinions, just be ready to be disagreed with.

So Senior Master Sergeant Bo, is that a Dinan S1 performance upgrade on your engine?
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/(o)____(o) \

 

My sarcastic humor does not always come across well on line. Even when I use those little smiley face things...

 

I thought I read that the Dinan suspension upgrade you are discussing does not come with a rear sway bar.

Adding an adjustable bar will give the end user the ability to tune the handling balance to their taste.

Personally, not having experience with the Dinan parts in question, I cannot believe simply bolting on struts, springs, and shocks will give the car the type of balance afforded by a stiffer rear bar.

Besides, sway bars and springs/shocks affect different aspects of handling. Addressing only one aspect will not make for the most well-rounded approach.

No offense to Dinan or their fanboys, but I highly recommend an adjustable rear sway bar in addition to any suspension "system" that does not come with one.

 

The question here is clear. What is the best way to improve responsiveness, while stiffening up the suspension, and hopefully lowering the car more than 3/4"? A RSB does help with the first part, responsiveness, but our car in question already has a 20mm sway bar. So what would be a good way to lower the car and still get handling close to the DINAN setup and still do all that for around $1200. This is a real tough question if you want to lower the car significantly, but we can stay around $1200 and still have a great suspension with the DINAN model, because the sway bar is already present. Unforetunately, for $1200, we are assuming there are no installation charges and this is a DIY project. There are good instructions available for someone with the right tools and confidence. But to get the extra lowering, you are leaving my realm of comfort. So many people try to mix and match their own springs and struts and end up unhappy. I think for the price, you may have to sacrifice ride height. THIS IS WHY... I'm getting Bilstein PSS9 Coilovers... I wanted a tried and true system and ride height adjustability. I'm getting mine slightly used, and for the nice $1200 price. Look around if you really want the ride height. I saw somebody recently selling their Bilsteins on NAM for the same price. Of course, you still have to pony up for the IE camber plates or similar. and you don't get to buy Strut Tower reinforcment plates in the price, but you get adjustable ride height. HMMMMM... what to do.

 

I would order the parts a la cart and save a few bucks. Koni Yellows, camber plates, springs, rear sway (you've got), and you're set. I pieced together said parts for under $1000, and did the work myself. My local dealer wouldn't warranty Dinan stuff, and the (small) premium for it isn't worth it in my case.

 

It has been amusing watching the posts flying back and forth.I just now was able to sit and read.
Yup, I have an anti sway bar and it has been fun!
Now, it seems the car needs further strength(maybe we just want more out of an already amazing machine......greedy bastards! haha-guilty)
I have niticed a little mushrooming recently(mushrooming only happens to other-ooops maybe not)
I would'nt mind a bone jarring ride as long as i have zero wheel play and crisp turn in!
I need for the front end ,what the sway did for the rear.
Hopefully I wont shirk responsibility and go hunting for the Jesus Head and RMW Header instead.

.....the suspension world is a dark murky place!

 

One thing that Dinan does is model the suspension. While lowering more does give you a lower CoG, it also starts to put the front control arms in non-ideal geometry. So you start getting trade offs in lateral motion of the contact patch as the suspension gets more compressed. This is a type of scrub, and is really bad for performance driving. When you combine this with the reduced travel in the suspension set up, you get more scrub and more bottoming. If the roll center goes down farther than the CoG, you even get a larger lean in the turns! Seems counter intuitive, and it is, but it's true. Has to do with the effective lever arm that acts on the suspension.

I had the Dinan demo car for a weekend, and it's a very, very well sorted car/suspension. Gary Anderson and I had the car at seriously extralegal speeds (controlled environment), and it was solid as a rock, and you felt you could take your hands off the wheel at 125 MPH!

As far as the camber plate, it depends on how and where you drive. If you do a lot of freeway (or autobahn) driving, the Dinans will be fine, as they add another 1/2 degree of negative camber. The Ireland Engineering fixed are a bit more agressive with 3/4s of a degree more negative camber. Adjustables allow you to take out the manufacting side to side variations, but they tend to ride a bit stiffer (more NVH) than the fixed plates. So it's all a matter of what compramise is good for you.

Personally, if I were to go the Dinan style route, I'd give them the business, as they did the work and the set-up engineering that I was going to copy, so throwing them a bit of cash as a thank you is just a nice thing to do. That said, copying is the highest form of flattery, but remember to add all the extra shipping charges in as you do the math!

Also, Scott is a nice guy (mentioned above in the thread) and is a straight shooter who I've never heard has steered anyone wrong.

For what it's worth,

Matt

 

No, I'm just happy to see you! Sorry, I couldn't resist.

As much as I think Dinan got their suspensions right, the jury is still out on their engine mods. I think JCW has a better designed package.

That's right, I said PACKAGE!

 

FWIW, our research and development on coilovers has conclusively shown that lower is not always better as far as lap times are concerned - this is using hard data captured at the track. In our opinion a 1-1.5" drop is all that is required - lower than that didn't = faster lap times and, in fact, 1.75" of drop or more actually hurt lap times...

And, a 1-1.5" drop is much more street friendly...

Just our $0.02!