So, I've been thinking about getting a rear sway bar for my 2003 MCS. I'm debating whether or not to get the 19mm or just go for the 22mm since they're both pretty close in price. I've never been to the track, (although I'd like to) but I tear up the canyons almost every weekend. I'm kinda thinking I'll go with the 19mm but I'm feeling pretty froggy right now about that 22mm. Any advice?

 

19mm is probably most usable for street use. You can use all three holes and adjust. Probably softest or mid setting is OK.

22mm is not as friendly for street use, too stiff is not recommended depending on your driving skill and ability to keep control and avoid overcorrection. Using a 22mm bar, only the softest setting would be usable.
If you learn how to drive with a stiffy set rear bar you can do OK. I've run over three years on the street with my rear bar on stiffest setting. Now I have it on softest setting for better control at autocross.

Increasing stiffness of the rear swaybar helps to reduce understeer inherent in a front wheel drive vehicle but if you over do the bar stiffness you can go past neutral handling and bring on oversteer.

19mm is still OK for the track. Use middle or firmest setting. Middle is probably fine depending on your suspension mods.

 

I'd also suggest 19mm, especially if you'll eventually be doing more suspension work, like camber plates for instance.

 

I discovered that a too stiff bar could make you spin out. I'd suggest the 19 mm.

 

19mm for street. More is NOT necessarily better...

 

yet another vote for the 19mm bar. i have this set on the middle setting and love the performance on the track. i just finished a track weekend at an unfamiliar track and the car performed well and predictable. my instructor couldn't believe how well the car turned, stuck, rotated, or whatever i asked it to do....IMO the 22mm bar will invite the back end to lead the front end if one needs to make a mid-corner correction at speed....

 

19mm...Just right! More is not always better..

 

Yep, looks like its gonna be the 19mm then.
This will be my first suspension mod.
Thanks guys and girls

 

What brand bar is best?

 

I purchased the H-sport...

 

If you are going with 19mm, H&R is the quiet one: no squeek complaints.

Most all the others will require occasional re-greasing.

 

Remember - the size of the bar is only one factor. Don't forget spring/damper rates and tire pressure. I find my 25mm (22 effective) H-Sport Comp bar in the middle setting a good match for my JCW suspension, but found the same bar in the same setting gave me pretty wicked lift-throttle oversteer with my stock suspension. A couple of pounds of tire pressure can make a huge difference in balance, too. You might just start there with the stock bar and see what you think.

 

but oversteer is just so fun ;] I have the 22mm and I drove with it on the middle setting and loved it. now its at its stiffest just for fun but I dont think that the 22mm is too much, unless its wet

 

That may be fine for you, but how would you feel if you got into somebody else's car as a passenger, and the driver told you he just installed a 22mm rear sway in the stiff setting? The question is what you feel confident about generally recommending to other people. The OP is starting from a stock bar.

 

I would have to disagree with most of the recommendations here. I understand that many people are perfectly happy with a 19mm bar, but how much seat time have these same people had with a 22mm bar? Randy Webb's preferred bar is 22mm forged steel. The same bar is sold by Rspeed and this is what I decided to go with last summer. I keep it on the middle setting all year couldn't be happier. This includes several months of winter driving with performance winter tires. My only other suspension mod is a M7 strut bar. In my experience, any oversteer is gradual and predictable with this bar. You really have to push the car hard (or screw up) to get into trouble. The only time mine got too loose was when I let a friend drive and he entered a left sweeper way too fast, but even then it recovered quickly.

I recall someone asking Randy Webb about the settings for this bar. I beleive his recommendation was to keep it on the middle setting when dry, softest when wet, and hardest for autocross.

 

in addition to my 19mm bar, i have: coilovers, camber plates, adjustable drop links, USS and an agressive alignment. all of these other changes contribute to decreasing understeer. a larger bar, for me, would be a disaster. i can get the car to rotate just fine by lifting or trail braking. i track the car pretty hard and like the balance. imo, 22mm for the street is asking for trouble unless the driver is highly trained/skilled.

 

everyones talking alot about street driving the 22mm isnt safe/good.. well theres not many places it seems like you could be going fast enough legally around a corner intown where any swaybar could effect you that bad. now out in the twisties and canyons, you are already prepared to be driving hard so alittle oversteer shouldn't be taking you by suprise in the first place. but for street driving the only thing I would be concerned about is noise. (if thats even an issue) unless you just drive around town recklessly throwing the car from place to place not really paying attention to your driving..

 

I actually had my heart set on a 19mm, but I got a good deal on a 22mm at MOTD, so I had it installed on the softest setting. The rest of my S suspension is stock (for now), but I don't think a stiff (er) bar should be a substitute for a good set of springs and shocks.

 

going to the corner market w/ a 22mm rear bar isn't inherently dangerous. lifting off the throttle in the middle of a spirited on-ramp or canyon curve can be very dangerous. i did this in my father's 911 as a 17-year-old and have never forgotten it. oversteer (or a spin) can take you by surprise. i'm a more experience driver now and wouldn't make the same mistake. understeer is dialed in from the factory to save us from ourselves. if one has the skills to handle a neutral or oversteer situation, fine. driving technique is enough to get the car to rotate w/ a 19mm bar and 22mm is overkill imo...

 

I have the 22mm alta rear swaybar, and have achieved a completely neutral car with it on the softest setting. (As I've said in several topics now..) I'll be playing with it at the next test & tune autox day, but I'm essentially limited to the softest setting. A swaybar is apparently (talking to people more knowledge than I) a poor way of forcing the car to behave a certain way. Springs and shocks are a much better starting point. If I could go back in time, I would have gotten a 19mm, experimented with the different settings, and achieved a neutral car that way, and be better off for it (my rear wheels would be more independent, the car would likely drive that much better).

I wouldn't necessarily tell anyone not to get a larger swaybar, but I don't think they're optimal..

 

well said, RedSkunk.

 

Years ago I had a similar experience in my highly modified 73 super beetle. Like the 911, it's RWD and has a lot of power for such little weight. But I don't think you can really compare that handling dynamic (easy, crazy oversteer) with that of a MINI...it would be way more difficult to acheive the same "very dangerous" result in a MINI.

But we all have our own personall preference/opinion...and that's what this tread asked for.

 

I have the H-Sport Competition 25.5mm hollow bar (roughly equivalent to a 23mm solid bar), and my car doesn't feel "twitchy" or unstable in the least. BUT, I installed the bar along with upgrading pretty much all of my suspension at the same time (lowered on two-way coilovers, adjustable endlinks, camber plates and adjustable rear lower control arms).

I've never driven a MINI with a large sway bay and an otherwise-stock suspension, so I don't have any experience there, but I could see how having a big sway bar, a stock-height car, and light rebound damping could unload the rear end pretty easily if you lifted the throttle in the middle of a fast corner.

 

I also tend to rely on those more knowledgeable than myself. Differences of opinion are nothing new, but here's a link that includes Randy Webb's advice on rear sway bars and suspension mods on a MINI.

http://store.webbmotorsports.com/ind...in_page=page_3

As Randy states, "the most dramatic thing you can do to the car is make it neutral..." That's what you acheived with a 22mm bar (and presumably some playing with your tire pressure, right?). The rear sway bar is also a very inexpensive mod. Based on these facts, I would consider that an "optimal" way to improve handling.

Sure, you can also achieve neutral handling with other combinations, ones that may even lead to better ride quality and higher levels of grip. Are these improvements worth all the extra money you'll spend? IMO, they aren't unless your MINI is seeing some serious track/autocross time (or it's for bling). Also, if I had a 19mm bar I'd probably have it on the hardest setting, so for me the 22mm offers more adjustability.

 

Just chiming in - I've got a 22mm with otherwise stock suspension. I've been happy with it (at full soft) both on track and street.

edited to add:
More understeer is definitely safer. Of course, if more understeer were BETTER, we wouldn't change out rear bars, would we?
If you're a lifelong FWD driver, and thus have to look up the term 'oversteer' in the dictionary , it is certainly safer to start with a smaller bar. Sways are relatively cheap, easy to swap, and hold their value, so if you want to move up in size it wouldn't be hard on the wallet or the back to do so.

All that said, I haven't had any pucker experiences with the MINI + 22mm bar. Then again, in my youth I swapped ends a few times with my RWD Capri, and have driven (RWD) Miatas for years.