Hi

i am interesed in getting a digital slr and i cant decide between the Canon d70 or the Canon 300D. It will be my first slr. I'll be using it at mini meetings, at hopefully at sports events. What do you recommend.

Canon pros for me
7 point focus, easy to use, cheaper than nikon, lens are cheaper to buy

nikon pros for me
high buffer memory, high quality of camera

thanks

 

I have been an avid Nikon user for years and will be getting the D70 soon (either my wifes buys it as a xmas present or I get it myself).

Go for the quality. You wont regret paying the extra in the long run.

When I compared cameras I found the picture quality better on the Nikon.
The lenses aren't that bad. You can always get good prices from B and H Photo. I have bought quite a lot from them over the years.

Chris

 

What kind of photography are you interested in? Also, what do you think your budget is in the next couple years for purchasing additional lenses?

Some thoughts:

- You aren't just buying a camera, you're buying into an entire system (body, lenses, and flash). Once you start looking at your "next lenses" (the ones you will get after you get the camera and the kit lens), the pricing between Nikon and Canon is very similar from what I've seen.

- The Digital Rebel is out in Black, so if you go that route, get a black one (it looks 10x better IMO).

- Nikon and Canon are both running rebates right now.

- Take into consideration that if you want to shoot RAW format, Nikon makes you either purchase their software ($100) or buy photoshop CS ($649). Canon provides RAW software with their cameras. So Nikon's $100 rebate is really just going to cover the purchase of Nikon Capture.

- You're going to be getting a very good camera either way, but I don't think there is much doubt about the D70 being superior to the Digital Rebel, both in terms of features and in terms of the lens construction. Image quality is pretty similar between the two IMO.

I'll try to post more about this later. Both those are some thoughts for now.

 

i assume you have already gone through these(but just in case you didnt):

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikond70/

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos300d/page19.asp


i went through the process recently before buying a camera for my vacation. At the time(and I believe this canon is new, or if not this one, then there is a new one), the D70 was the top......only lacking a couple options that the D100 didnt have. I was all set to buy and then I went to BestBuy to do some hands on checking.......yeah, they were to big for my trip. but, for mini events and the like, its probably not an issue. I ended up with the 5700, which did just fine. The 8700 came out a month after i bought the 5700, which was a little bit of a pain because they added some steady-shot features.

now none of that probably interested you, but i can say that the dpreview site was accurate in most of its comparisons......especially battery life and moire effect of the lens. My buddy is going through the same decision process and he is leaning towards the canon.

good luck.

 

check into the purchase packages on that one, most come with that software included.

 

I'm talking about Nikon Capture which is specifically for editing RAW format (.NEF in this case), not NikonView or Nikon Picture Project.

WIth the D70, currently Nikon only includes a 30 day trial version of Capture, not a fully licensed copy and a fully licensed version of Picture Project. Picture Project is absolutely not worth the CD it's printed on. If you read the D70 review on DPreview, Nikon is taken to task for that.

Anyone purchasing a D70 and wanting to shoot RAW will need to buy software to edit it. You can shoot jpeg for free, but RAW is going to cost some money.

 

Thanks for all your replys,
at first i'll be mainly using the camera for recreation, pictures of minis, flowers, objects, etc. I then hope to go more sports specific, mainly tennis and motosport.

The prices i have for the canon is 910Euros and the nikon is 1080, both including lens.

Does the 7 point focus in the canon make it much better at sports imaging than the 5 point of the nikon???

i want to order the cameras asap but i just cant make up my mind

 

odd, i got capture with the 5700.......wonder if its a dumbed down version. although i seem to remember settings for the d70. foolish if that is still so.

 

Check it, I'd bet it is the 30 day trial version. It cost $100 after that to get the license.

 

Go for the Nikon!

I was a photography retailer for 25+ years, sold both Canon and Nikon, heard the argument all the time. From my experience Nikon was better equipment for the majority of those 25 years, Canon did have their moments.

Nikon owners were more quality conscience, took their hobby more seriously, and in that time I seldom heard a Nikon owner say they wanted a Canon!

As far as the price difference, I was alway able to break it down, show the customer the longterm benefits and the price difference went away.

Think about this, after 6 monthes, several more new models, even the D70 will seem dated, you cannot beat the system. As a camera dealer we thought the turnover was great!!

 

If you go to http://www.steves-digicams.com/ you can learn more than you want to know about most cameras on the maket.

A lot of information on this site.

Earl

 

I've read the reports from Steves-digicam and dpreview and i'm still undecided


Can anybody tell me the advantage of the 7 point focus of the canon compared to the 5 of the nikon???

& does anybody know where i could get a black Canon 300D????

Thanks

 

Hi, Fabio. I posted some comments about this on Mini2.com as well. I find any sort of autofocus less than useful for motorsports work. I almost always have it turned off, even with a very fast autofocusing camera like the D2h. One reason is that I don't like being forced to compose with one of the AF points over the subject. It's true that having more AF points helps a bit (the D2h has more, also), but I still don't like it. For some sports I'm sure AF works fine but I at least don't really care for it for motorsports. The motion is fairly predictable and pre-focusing works very well. That said, I know some motorsports shooters who like and use AF.

My inclination would be to go with the Nikon. I'm not saying that just because I use Nikons (if you were asking me whether to get the D2h or the 1d Mark 2, for instance, I would have trouble suggesting one over the other). Canon essentially used the 10d firmware in the Digital Rebel but deliberately removed some functionality from the firmware so as to not hurt sales of the more expensive model. Nikon didn't do that. In some ways, the D70 is superior to the more expensive D100.

Also, the Nikon kit lens is much better than Canon's. That's not to say that all Nikon lenses are better than all Canon lenses--certainly not--but Canon went the cheap route with that lens.

I second the suggestion to look at the total systems. Maybe there's some future must-have item that Canon has that Nikon doesn't, or vice-versa.

I also agree that you really should get Nikon Capture or one of the third-party NEF converters like Bibble if you get the Nikon. It's too bad Nikon makes you pay extra to fully exploit the camera's RAW capability.

Mark

 

Thanks agian Mark for your info

Its a hard decision

I got a brainwave earlier today, what if i get the 20D, do you think that its worth the extra few pounds???

 

Yeah, I'd be tempted to get the 20D if I was going to get a Canon. The additional cost is obviously a factor, though (and don't forget you'll need a good lens), but from what I've read it's a very good body.

Mark

 

WOW. I just typed up a ridiculously long comparison between the two, then hit the back button on my mouse and lost it all!

For now, let's just say my vote goes wholeheartedly to the D70. I'll explain in detail when I get back from my meeting.

 

Ok, here we go.

I had a good chance to head to head compare the two while visiting family over the holidays. I've had my D70 for a few months now and got to use my cousins 300D fairly extensively. In the time that I fiddled with the 300D I didn't find a single thing that was better than my D70, but I found many things that were annoying and not quite up to the D70 standards.

First, the LCD screen on the 300D doesn't have some of the most useful parts of the information that is displayed on the D70. The D70 displays the exposure mode (single object, center weighted, or outside weighted), AF-area mode (single area, dynamic area, or closest subject), and whether the camera is in AF-S or AF-C mode (AF-S beneficial for stationary objects, AF-C better for moving). Also the LCD on the D70 displays the flash mode and if flash compensation is on or not. Finally, it displays the shooting mode that the camera is in (single shot, continuous, self timer, remote, remote timer). All this information makes tailoring the camera to the exact shooting needs for the conditions you're in much quicker since you don't have to go into a bunch of menus that may be 3 or 4 layers deep. If you're just a casual shooter though, this may be overwhelming and totally useless.

Next, the instant startup of the D70 is really a huge advantage. Going from the instant on functionality of the D70 to the ~2 second startup time with the 300D is really a noticeable change when you're trying to catch candid shots that you're not expecting. Again, if you're just a casual shooter this may not be a priority but you never know when you're going to want to get that perfect shot before it disappears.

One of the biggest things I noticed about the 300D which is really more of an issue with the kit lens than the camera itself was that the most open aperture is simply a joke. At 55mm zoom (maximum for the kit lens) wide open for the aperture is 5.6. That is simply terrible. For those who haven't fiddled with SLRs much or haven't been through any camera stuff, 5.6 is actually a fairly small aperture opening. In order to get any kind of DOF in a picture you have to go at least down to 3.5, while 2.8 or 1.8 are much preferred. Also, when your minimum aperture is so high it forces you to use a slower shutter speed to compensate. If light isn't great you'll end up getting tangled up in shutter speeds to slow to shoot handheld which is just downright infuriating. The D70 on the other hand has a 4.5 aperture at maximum zoom, which is 70mm, which will not only provide for more reach but also allow to go 1 step faster on the shutter end (since the aperture is 1 step lower).

The funniest part about the aperture thing with the Canon that I noticed was their meek attempt at hiding its poor low end by pushing the upper end to absurd proportions to fool people who don't know what each number actually translates to shooting wise. IIRC the 300D has aperture settings of 16, 18, 22, 26, 32, and 36. Anything over 22 is just gratuitous... at F/22 things are tack sharp from virtually right in front of the lens out to infinity! I can just hear the Canon marketing guys talking about adding in all those ludicrously small apertures. "Hey guys, they'll think this lens is as versatile as a swiss army knife!"

The most annoying part of the 300D (and I guess you could attribute this to my familiarity with the D70) was that it only has one function dial. The D70 has 2 and I honestly use the secondary dial just as much as the primary dial. There are just so many functions that are adjustable in more than 1 dimension that the secondary dial is a huge asset. The most noticeable example of this is when shooting in full manual mode, where shutter and aperture are both up for the shooter to decide. On the D70 you (logically) adjust the shutter with the primary dial, and aperture with the secondary dial. The 300D however, the dial operates the shutter, then you have to hold down a button and rotate the same dial to adjust the aperture. Very annoying.

Overall I guess the things I get worked up about are fairly minor, especially if you're just a casual photographer looking for something to get extremely high quality images with. Overall though, the detractors from the Digital Rebel make me wonder why anybody would really opt for it instead of a high end PNS (for those on the lower end of enthusiasticness - is that even a word? ) and a D70 or 20D for those more serious about their photography. Oh well, take what I've written for what its worth, a comparison written by a photo dweeb in love with his new D70.

 

If you look at what canon offers and what nikon offers it really isn't fair to compare them. The d70 is more of an inbetween of the 20d and 300d. The 300d was developed well before the d70..the d70 costs more etc....the 20d from canon costs slightly more then the d70 and is newer still....additionally the order one may rank them in is 300d then d70 then 20d being the best. I've fiddled a bit with the d70 and 20d and own a 300d...hands down i prefer the 20d to all of them...and many of the feature items that the d70 beats the 300d on won't affect everyone so you have to really look at what type of photos you want to take. That being said I don't plan on getting rid of my 300d for awhile.

I bought the 300d for one simple reason - as being my first dslr or slr there is no reason to spend more for a camera with more features then your capable of using...master that first then get a new body in a few years when they blow the doors off anything the 300d, 20d or d70 can offer today. Additionally I felt better buying into canon then i did nikon just based off their history in the digital world...nikon always seemed a step behind to me.

This isn't the film world anymore where you buy a body that lasts your lifetime and lens are rapidly changing....it is completely opposite...glass is what lasts a lifetime now and the body is going to be changing drastically over the coming years as the digital world matures. Spend as little on camera as you can and spend more on glass.

the 300d also has the wasia hack that adds some nice features like MLU, and better control over af modes among others.

Final advice - TRY THEM ALL and don't fall pray to all the features that you think you need now...end of day they are all just tools and the person behind the camera is what matters.

Here is a few sample shots from my 300d. All handheld and no use of any IS or VR.

 

Casey, I agree with you that the D70 isn't really a fair comparison with the 300D, but so many people narrow their decision to those two cameras that I feel a head to head comparison is warranted. If you're planning on upgrading the body in the future then by all means, a 300D with quality lenses will take outstanding pictures. The point I was trying to get at in my post however was that the 300D with a kit lens is really very close in performance to higher end point and shoot models that offer better zoom ranges and a smaller package. For the casual shooter who doesn't want to worry about changing lenses and such, the PNS would be a much better choice, and unless you're planning to upgrade your body in the future, the D70 will work with you as your grow and mature as a photographer for much longer.

BTW What lenses do you have for your 300D? Currently I've got the kit lens and a 50mm f/1.8 for my D70... eyeing a telephoto now.

 

I really don't think the d70 or 300d will last longer then either other...with the pace that digital cameras are at and as home printers improve as well by the time you will want to upgrade from the 300d the entry level cameras will be at 12+mp for dSLR with a 10d/20d type camera at 16+ and both the d70 and 300d will be old and you will want to upgrade. I agree with many of the points you made in your review, but my point was don't waste extra money on a body starting out - get better lens...for example the kit 300d lens - it isn't that great at all - smack that on a 1ds and it still isn't great...there are many places doing their own kits with much better lens, but at the price for the kit lens it is worth buying mearly to sell with it when you want to upgrade. Additionally too many people get caught up in just looking at the features and think that will make them a great photographer...a 1ds will not make you a better photographer...people tend to overbuy with electronics and get way more then they ever need and by the time they need those features the the other stuff that they would have boughten back then is so outdated and you wouldn't want it either. dSLR world is expensive and you will want to spend your money on quality glass and other options like a GOOD tripod, monopod, backpack, memory cards, filters, different heads, external flashes etc.

Currently i only have two lens - the kit 18-55mm and a 70-200 f4/L. My next lenses will be 100mm Macro, 24-70L and a 100-400L most likely in that order.

 

1 other note...do your research on Canon and Nikon - find out which one you feel more comfortable with..as buying a body is more of buying into a brand..a brand you will want to stick with over the long haul as when you buy more glass those will only work with that brand and that is where you will end up spending the most money...so more then comparing bodies..you should be comparing which company you feel more comfortable with. For me I choose Canon...others feel better with Nikon..but you need to make that decision.

 

I think you're right about how long they'll last from a technology standpoint. I was more referring to when people become more dedicated photographers they'll probably appreciate the feature set/functionality of the D70 more, thus making it more expandable per se. That being said, I don't plan on ever getting rid of the D70. Sure in 5 or 10 years 6 megapixels will be a joke, but the picture quality and functionality of it is still outstanding. A great picture today will still be a great picture 5, 10, or 100 years from now. Nothing new technology comes out with will make the D70 (or 300D) a worse camera. Sure I'll upgrade eventually but as you said, lenses are by FAR the first priority.

And I agree completely about the other equipment. That's why I've got myself a Manfrotto tripod and monopod, Hitachi 2GB card, and a nice Lowepro bag. Now I just need to work on getting myself that Sigma EX 70-200mm HSM F/2.8 tele and a SB-600 speedlight.

 

Kyle - you seen the new epson p2000 PSD - i've been dying to get my hands on one to try out.

 

Yeah, they look amazing. One more thing to add to the list I suppose.

 

Thanks for all your help guys, i ended up orderin a Canon d20, i'll be keeping it for a long time so i thought it would be the best and i also liked the feel of the camera.


Thanks again
Fabio