I'd rather be a comedian than a queer.



Dont take my winking the wrong way though.

 

I feel like an outsider here because I know so very little about these things being discussed. So wanting to learn I have read this thread with interest. But.... from an outsider's point of view much of the arguments on all sides here don't really say anything at all. Sorry I am not intending to be mean and insulting but it seems this has become an emotional argument. It mostly seems to be who has a relationship with MINI or BMW or NAM, who loves MINI and who does not and who has a legacy and who does not. None of this really says anything to me. Or not much.

Now if one side or the other were to say that one uses materials that are proven to last longer or perform better or has better test results or owner satisfaction, or something of that nature then that would be saying something. Bottom line is WHY is one better than another and I can't imagine that the WHY is based on a realtionship but rather is based mostly on design, workmanship and materials. I can see that a stronger dedication to MINI could result in one or the other having a better design, material or workmanship but if the discussion were centered on a more empirical data about the design, workmanship or materials or tests or owner satisfaction then perhaps the heat of this argument would not be quite so emotional and tempers would not flare as much. Also for us outsiders we could understand it a little better.

 

This is great! I'm enjoying every reply.

 

Camelpilot... i can't believe you get away with some of the remarks that you do... but that aside...

You are a pure genious! You are a fart smeller i mean smart feller... (two can play the immature name calling game, however i loathe the fact that i just stuped to your level)
anyways...
JCW did make a huge impression on BMW didn't they... ohh wait they were called a cooper roughly 30 years before BMW even owned the MINI brand... real smart buddy... real smart:impatient

 

see that's where you're confused and I'm not. I roll my eyes at your infatuation with all things John Cooper but you apparently confuse this with that guy winking at you during that encounter at your local bar the other night... I say, good for you 2.

enough, enjoy your JCW parts...

 

Unfortunately I do not own a JCW kit.

For Electric_Shock...

Regarding reliability: Chances are that your average MINI tuner (i.e. M7, Madness, Webb) will have packages AS RELIABLE, if not more, than Dinan and JCW. Thats a fact.

Regarding Perfomance: Your average MINI tuner, will have performance far superior than JCW or Dinan. Just keep in mind that the higher the performance goes, the less reliable your car will be.

Regarding "Bling": Well if it's about Showing (as opposed to Going), then JCW, Dinan, and AC are the choices that come to mind.

So when someone asks JCW or Dinan? Quite frankly its a "Which one is more popular?" question, because if it was purely based on performance, then JCW and Dinan would not even be in the equation.

Savvy?

My answer to the initial question...

JCW all the way. They havent been around the block. They made the block.

 

Hey... are you a foreigner?? Thats a favourite term of mine, which I use occasionally, but most people here never heard it before.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. But anyway, Coopers made a huge impression on the person in charge of BMW at the time of the project (his name escapes me). He too was a big reason that we got the car we did, thanks to the impression that he got from Classic Mini's in his younger days. He made sure BMW didnt go "cheap" when engineering the car. He did a damn good job too. Just an fyi.

 

WRONG And that's what I think you misunderstand.

First, LOTS of dealers are Madness authorized, they sell install and honor the Madness warranty on the parts they sell and install.

Some of those Madness dealers are even... authorized DINAN dealers! Dinan is not the only company whose aftermarket parts dealerships sell... Nor does Dinan have exclusives at the dealerships either. It's the same with the audio stuff, the MINI blessed solution is Sirius, but that doesn't prevent (or stop) dealers from selling and installing XM Direct systems, and many do.

Finally, in 3 years of MINI ownership as well as active participation on all the big boards, this is the first time I've heard of this entity you call MININA. I've heard of MINI Worldwide, MINIUSA, and even MINICanada, but I've never heard of a North American MINI parent. That is one that wasn't BMW...

 

You know that question has been asked several times, and it looks like the only good hard solid answer that we may ever get is that JCW pieces are fully covered by your warranty and can be serviced at any MINI dealer.

On the other hand, Dinan and everybody else could potentially affected your warranty, and will limit your options should a Dinan part or a part from any of the other aftermarket parts fail or cause a failure on your car.

 

You are wrong and its ok because you are ignorant. I will leave it at that. You obviously have NOT ever worked for BMW or MINI as a corporation. Just because the dealer does it, does not mean BMW Corporate approves. I am very well aware of what dealers sell. BMW as a company is very controlling over what their dealers do. They can do this through various bonus and incentive programs to the dealer. BMW makes it perfectly clear that they DO NOT want you selling something that competes with a product they offer. Not sure what dealer you go to, but please visit a "Center of Excellence" dealer and see how it is operated. That what BMW wants them to all be like. So please go back to moderating or whatever it is you do. Until you have first hand experience on how BMW Corporate operates I don't want to hear what you believe to be fact.

As far as the NA, MINIUSA and MINICANADA Both fall under the MININA name. That is what BMW refers top them as so I am sure your message boards are correct and BMW is a complete fool in the way they address a company they own.

 

- for good mesure. Hadn't had one in a while.

 

motorsport - your claim that BMW won't want the dealerships selling stuff that competes with their own makes sense.

So why do they sell Dinan packages alongside JCW packages? Im curious.

 

You're right, I don't work for a dealer, never have and don't ever intend to.

As for how controlling BMW is over the MINI dealers, you might want to read the forums and actually deal with MINI dealers... MINIUSA dictates policy to the dealers, not BMW. And yes I'm very much aware of the fact that BMW is the parent.

Considering that every MINI dealer I've been to that sells items that competes with items that MINI and BMW offers makes no secret of that fact, I think it's pretty obvious that things work a bit differently than you say.

I've been to at least 6 East Coast MINI dealers in the last six months. Some carry Dinan, some don't. All have very noticeable displays of the aftermarket items they install, quite a bit of it (like Madness parts) are not OEM pieces. Some dealers who like the XM direct kit will place tags in their in stock cars that they installed XM Direct in announce that the vehicle has XM.

Finally, MINIUSA doesn't have any Center of Excellence dealers, that's direct from them. That's a BMW exclusive term and doesn't apply to MINI operations.

Finally, I've never called you ignorant or made any attacks at you... how about extending the same respect back?

 

You are wrong. First, of course, John Cooper is dead. Second, his son Michael is VERY involved in JCW development. Go over to the UK mini site and find the video interview Michael did. For example, he explains why the JCW exhaust is so quiet ... because he wanted it "refined"

In regards to dealer, whether or not BMW cares is moot. The FACT is, at least my dealer, has, for example MiniMania parts displayed that you can have installed.

 

People here are great. I think NAM's favorite word is attack!

 

How am I wrong? John Cooper is dead and did not help build the new MINI. Enzo Ferrari is dead and did not help build the Enzo. Looks like you are wrong. I don't think there was ever a question about what Micheal Cooper does or did.

These attacks are unreal...

 

hehehe you are wrong again. again and again.

JC played a part in the development of the Coopers. Would you like me to show you a picture of him in one?

Also, all those JCW parts are made at the JCW garages in Preston.

John Cooper helped build the new MINI. (Sorry to disappoint).

 

Man, this site is like a bunch of pit bulls...Camelpilot, I have a couple questions. To your earlier statement, if Dinan was in such a rush to get parts out to the public, why were their parts the absolute last to hit the market?

Also, since you bash Dinan's offering for the MINI so much, I have to ask...How would you do it better?
Proceed.....

 

I cant do it better. But I can do it the same. It's easy, make some big brakes, and also a pulley (now it is easy because the real tuners have already figured out the best 15% reduction), I can copy any intake, K&N seems to be fine because I wouldnt know any better right? And if I copy Alta, they will definitely know I copied Alta, because Alta is unique, but what I would do is change the colour of the filter to something unique, say Mushroom purple lol, hmm lets see, what are the other guys doing? Springs? Ill do some Spring copies, not hard to do, what else? ..... hmmm... what are these MINI clown car owners buying? Hmmm... Oops I should add a belt to the pulley since the pulley is smaller, it only makes sense (since Im a retard and dont realise that the belt tensioner exists and 15% doesnt need a new belt)... hmm what else can I copy... rear sway bar you say? Ok sounds good, Ill make mine green.

Yep , my business is coming along nicely. I dont need to think of a cool name because I'll use the one I'm infamous for - CAMELPILOT. Inscribe a nice CAMELPILOT in the metal and I'm good to go.

Hey man, you wanna buy a big brake kit? Calipers are green. It looks trick.

 

I have read this thread over again and I am failing to find a point.

 

Are you serious?

The point is we are ravenous Pitbulls.

 

I have reread a lot of the posts here trying to make sense out of anything anyone has to say. The above quote is just about the only thing that makes any sense to me. From what I have read here no one seems to indicate that any one maker of these modifications is superior to any other in terms of performance or durability/reliability. So then it comes down to value and warranty and service. Is this correct?

Is the engine blowing up or other serious problems really a concern? Until this thread my impressions regarding mods has been that with anything other than JCW, there is some risk of voiding the MINI warranty. So it seems to me that when deciding what maker of mods to get it comes down to risk assessment. If I get mods by one of these "other" companies/tuners but the cost is thousands less than say the same for JCW if I think there is little to no risk to having problems with my MINI, then buying from that "other" company/tuner makes some sense. But if I am sensitive to risk and cost is not much of a factor then it is clear that JCW is definitely going to be backed by MINI/BMW. If motorsports3 is correct and Dinan is backed as completely just the same as JCW, then the value argument makes a ton of sense in favor of Dinan. Then it could also come down to brand - name plate preferences. This seems to be what most are arguing here - the matter of brand name. Some seem to prefer the Dinan name for all the reasons argued and some seem to prefer the JCW name for all of their reasons (most of those arguments on both sides seem to be about history and seems to come down to what name you would prefer to have on your MINI) and some don't care one way or the other about "brand" and argue that the "others" are just as good (but then it comes back to warranty issues).

Is this a fair summary?.

 

Yes. I think that is a darn good summary.

 

OK. Thank you. Now you can all go back to name calling and insulting over which brand is "better".:smile:

 

No, you are wrong. He died after working on the first JCW bits and had much influence on the kit.

They are not attacks, just getting the facts straight.